Safe handling fee?

[taperxz]

"Ideology"? Haha, really? It's pretty simple. Some FFLs charge extra fees to perform PPTs on top of the state mandated fees. Some FFLs do not. Obviously it's their decision for whatever reason. It's also my decision as a consumer to go to the FFLs that don't charge extra fees. Why would I pay more for nothing? It makes no sense. It's a stupid simple decision on my part, pay less or pay more? Why pay more if I don't have to and get better service from the FFLs that don't charge extra fees and also seem to know what they are doing? You're getting all butthurt because you can't force me to pay you more and you can't prevent me from going to an FFL that doesn't charge extra fees. Thats retarded. And it certainly doesn't sound like free market capitalism.

You are truly missing the point. Very typical of many

[Gryff]

I find it amusing that people like you are trying to enforce a BS law on FFL's for your gain but not for the FFL who is trying to make a living. How many letters have you written to your State Senator or Assembly person to allow for a cost of living adjustment on the $10 an FFL gets for doing your PPT?

So, we have to raise wages for our employees but are forced to take a loss on PPT service? Don't be a socialist commie in favor of gun rights. Its a bad optic.

You wanted to be an FFL. Suck it up and understand that some things are the cost of doing business. It's not a service, so, no, you don't get to think in terms of profit/loss on it. It's a regulatory process that you are required to provide.

Don't like it? Go open a Subway, instead.

Nope, better learn accounting Its not a fee! It's a service charge

[EsotericEpsilon]

There?s a lot of FFLs that can?t increase their customer base. Many rural stores are limited by population and may even be the only game in town.

I understand there?s a lot of self serving customers here and that?s fine and again, we charge zero extra fees. When that local business decides to close and now your only choice is 35-40 miles away, you just got charged $25 for gas

Many stores need the local support to stay open and pay an employee or two. Many don?t assess the situation.

If you would, could you point out mom and pop FFLs that shut down due to loss of revenue from transfer fees? Or even had to scale down? Until then, thus is purely speculation and an attempt to justify other FFLs price tack ons. As Gryff mentioned, it's a cost of doing business.

Having a shop close down due to loss of revenue from fire arm transfer fees is like having a sandwich shop close because no one wants to up size to a large drink and instead ask for a water cup (a "service" that must be provided) . FFLs have other services and merch to offer.

Not to confuse anything that has been said, but I'm not accusing your business of doing this. I'm referring to others that do, and when confronted refuse to admit error, or even attempt to justify the add ons.

[Tere_Hanges]

If you would, could you point out mom and pop FFLs that shut down due to loss of revenue from transfer fees? Or even had to scale down? Until then, thus is purely speculation and an attempt to justify other FFLs price tack ons. As Gryff mentioned, it's a cost of doing business.

Having a shop close down due to loss of revenue from fire arm transfer fees is like having a sandwich shop close because no one wants to up size to a large drink and instead ask for a water cup (a "service" that must be provided) . FFLs have other services and merch to offer.

Not to confuse anything that has been said, but I'm not accusing your business of doing this. I'm referring to others that do, and when confronted refuse to admit error, or even attempt to justify the add ons.

According to taper, thats straight up "communist" "ideology" right there. LOL.

[taperxz]

If you would, could you point out mom and pop FFLs that shut down due to loss of revenue from transfer fees? Or even had to scale down? Until then, thus is purely speculation and an attempt to justify other FFLs price tack ons. As Gryff mentioned, it's a cost of doing business.

Having a shop close down due to loss of revenue from fire arm transfer fees is like having a sandwich shop close because no one wants to up size to a large drink and instead ask for a water cup (a "service" that must be provided) . FFLs have other services and merch to offer.

Not to confuse anything that has been said, but I'm not accusing your business of doing this. I'm referring to others that do, and when confronted refuse to admit error, or even attempt to justify the add ons.

Another ignorant mistake from a CA gun owner. We aren?t talking about transfer fees here

[taperxz]

You wanted to be an FFL. Suck it up and understand that some things are the cost of doing business. It's not a service, so, no, you don't get to think in terms of profit/loss on it. It's a regulatory process that you are required to provide.

Don't like it? Go open a Subway, instead.

Where in the US is a private business forced to take a loss for performing a service for the government other than PPT?s?

Even a bank can charge you $35 for a bad check someone else gave you that you deposited

[taperxz]

According to taper, thats straight up "communist" "ideology" right there. LOL.

I know you?re not accusing me. I tack on no extra charges for PPT?s

It?s not a matter of going broke. It?s a government mandate on FFLs that make stores lose money. It?s not even the $10!

The bigger loss is when performing a ppt, you?re having to deal with that when you have 3-4 other customers waiting to buy a gun or ammo, get impatient or don?t have time to wait and leave without buying anything. It?s not just about the $10.

From a business standpoint it starts at $10 then escalates to what we pay employees theses days and then lost revenue to potential buyers that leave because they can?t wait for a PPT to finish.

Why do you think you hear people here complain about having to wait at a store to do a ppt because others are actually buying guns or the store can?t do them ?because their safe is full?

What I?m trying to explain is what, why and how this govt mandate is a problem in the industry.

Some of you may understand what I?m conveying others are like a rock and ponding on the wall ?I want my ppt? and ? I want it now for nothing?

[ASD1]

What fee for PPT's, would YOU charge, if you lawfully could ?????

What do you think would be fair? Please change the "X" to what you think the cost are.

1hr labor $xx.xx (not what you are paid but the cost of staff

copy / print 9 sheets $x.xx

File and retain the paperwork forever $x.xx

1% of the cost of the item co cover insurance (no getting around this)

[Nardo1895]

I normally try and stay out of these drama fights, but Taper's a good guy and shouldn't be the only one defending his position.

It's pretty ridiculous that we get $10 to do a PPT. Maybe FFLs before me were in cahoots with the State when that was enacted but that is certainly before my time. Yes I knew what I was in for when I got my FFL, and no I don't add any fees or service charges or whatever when I do a PPT. But its pretty CS that some of you out there give a FFL such grief over this.

Besides the issue Taper brought up, a PPT takes twice as long to process as a sale or transfer, especially if the seller and buyer don't show up at the same time. I do view PPTs as a way to start a business relationship but I also don't have to rely on my FFL for my only income.

What amazes me the most is the way some of you gripe about an extra $25 on what is probably at least a $500 transaction. I have a few customers who tip me because they know a PPT is a loss. Perhaps if more of you did that, fewer FFLs would be trying to find ways to avoid a loss.

I'm not calling any of you communists, but Taper's point is correct. Government setting a fixed price for any privately provided commodity or service is communistic. In capitalism the market determines the price based on availability and demand.

Go ahead and out the FFLs you don't like. But then don't 'itch when the number of FFLs in CA keeps declining. Personally, if I thought I was being overcharged I'd just walk out the door.

[EsotericEpsilon]

Another ignorant mistake from a CA gun owner. We aren?t talking about transfer fees here

You get my point though. Yes I used the words "transfer fees," but the fact that you knew what I was talking about shows you know the problem at hand: tacking on extra charges for DROS. Dancing around the word game doesn't change what it is. (Though we know the .gov uses word dances for legalese)

Frankly I don't think the .gov should charge for transfers. No other right is "pay to play." We don't pay the .gov to speak freely, to vote, or gather. Why should the 2A be any different?
That +/-$50 per transaction should go straight to the shop.

I don't mind spending more money at a shop when I return to pick up. A few hundred rounds of ammo, more ammo boxes, cases, knives, etc even if I don't need anything, so I give more business to shops. You guys (FFLs) help us fight the good fight against komiefornia.

If I may, I believe most people here on CG feel this way ^
What they might be trying to say is they were already going to spend more on ammo, etc at that shop, but they don't like being "told" to spend more. Yes they could go elsewhere, but we all know how us CGers are
flame on

[taperxz]

You get my point though. Yes I used the words "transfer fees," but the fact that you knew what I was talking about shows you know the problem at hand: tacking on extra charges for DROS. Dancing around the word game doesn't change what it is. (Though we know the .gov uses word dances for legalese)

Frankly I don't think the .gov should charge for transfers. No other right is "pay to play." We don't pay the .gov to speak freely, to vote, or gather. Why should the 2A be any different?
That +/-$50 per transaction should go straight to the shop.

I don't mind spending more money at a shop when I return to pick up. A few hundred rounds of ammo, more ammo boxes, cases, knives, etc even if I don't need anything, so I give more business to shops. You guys (FFLs) help us fight the good fight against komiefornia.

If I may, I believe most people here on CG feel this way ^
What they might be trying to say is they were already going to spend more on ammo, etc at that shop, but they don't like being "told" to spend more. Yes they could go elsewhere, but we all know how us CGers are
flame on

Nah, here?s the deal, MAYBE when two locals that come in or regular customers, it?s not a big deal. However if you facilitate a Calguns sale (using CGN as an example only because they have advertising here) you?ll get one guy living in NorCal and another in Cental Cal meeting at an FFL in the middle. They use us, cry about a possible lock and buy nothing, plus we never see them again.

I?d say 65% of PPTs spend nothing or never come back. It?s not even anything we?ve done. It?s just that we aren?t local to them. This isn?t complaining, it?s just the facts. According to bookkeeping, we spend $37 to accommodate a PPT. Even two boxes of ammo doesn?t put us in the black.

[CSACANNONEER]

Nah, here?s the deal, MAYBE when two locals that come in or regular customers, it?s not a big deal. However if you facilitate a Calguns sale (using CGN as an example only because they have advertising here) you?ll get one guy living in NorCal and another in Cental Cal meeting at an FFL in the middle. They use us, cry about a possible lock and buy nothing, plus we never see them again.

I?d say 65% of PPTs spend nothing or never come back. It?s not even anything we?ve done. It?s just that we aren?t local to them. This isn?t complaining, it?s just the facts. According to bookkeeping, we spend $37 to accommodate a PPT. Even two boxes of ammo doesn?t put us in the black.

OK, how much does advertising cost per person that walks through your doors? Do they all buy something? Now, having two people PAY you to walk in and one will return later will mean you have 3 walk ins that cost you nothing in advertising. Using your numbers, 1 of the 3 spends more money than just the PPT fees and possibly ends up being a repeat customer. That sounds like cheap advertising to me.

[Tere_Hanges]

I seriously doubt any FFL ever went out of business only because of PPTs. Pretty sure they go out of business because of competition or just not enough demand in their market. Having to charge extra fees to do PPTs to stay in business just sounds like a load of crap. I'm not buying it.

Personally, I don't think the state should require FFLs to conduct PPTs. I think its wrong that they put this on the FFLs. The state should run their own shops to do PPTs. And ALL CA taxpayers should pay for it not just gun owners. Making gun owners and/or FFLs pay for "gun safety" measures is a load of crap too.

[taperxz]

OK, how much does advertising cost per person that walks through your doors? Do they all buy something? Now, having two people PAY you to walk in and one will return later will mean you have 3 walk ins that cost you nothing in advertising. Using your numbers, 1 of the 3 spends more money than just the PPT fees and possibly ends up being a repeat customer. That sounds like cheap advertising to me.

No we?ve already done the numbers

Like I said in a prior post, when people are using you to meet half way from 40-50 miles away, it’s not advertising because they’re probably not coming back

[taperxz]

I seriously doubt any FFL ever went out of business only because of PPTs. Pretty sure they go out of business because of competition or just not enough demand in their market. Having to charge extra fees to do PPTs to stay in business just sounds like a load of crap. I'm not buying it.

Personally, I don't think the state should require FFLs to conduct PPTs. I think its wrong that they put this on the FFLs. The state should run their own shops to do PPTs. And ALL CA taxpayers should pay for it not just gun owners. Making gun owners and/or FFLs pay for "gun safety" measures is a load of crap too.

Guns stores run on small margins. I?m not saying people will go out of business but as I stated earlier, it does muck things up when you have to do a ppt and other paying customers are standing their watching and then leave because they can?t wait.

Like in any business, all the small stuff adds up to making a business successful. Every little bit actually matters