Do sellers need RealID for PPT?

[edgerly779]

Like I said won't last long. Thanks Kes Kemasa did not deserve that attack.

[kemasa]

Since he is gone, I am going to delete my responses to him to clean things up, but I guess that will have to wait until I am on my computer since I don't know how to do it on tapatalk.

[crufflers]

I was at Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday as the buyer, and we were turned away because the seller's driver's license said "Federal Limits Apply" and did not have another form of proof of lawful presence. I know that this is a requirement for buyers, but does it really apply to sellers as well?

I had the same scenario there. Need a birth cert or Real ID or the old style CA DL according to the SW gun counter. This was for a PPT.

[taperxz]

It's ironic that the two most significant 2A cases for the last decade have been won by non-gun lawyers, who actually didn't want to represent "gun nuts".

and the NRA even opposed the Heller case.

What does this answer even mean to what i said? Serious question.

[Chewy65]

If a FFL is going to do a PPT for a lousy $35, why should he have to take the risk that the seller have the requisite ID should the firearm have to be returned to him in another DROS? Some sellers could get real upset and nasty if the are unable to get their firearm back and it is turned over to the police.

By edit, I'll take a crack at answering my own question. If at the PPT goes through, ownership and possession of a firearm is transferred to a new person. The state has an interest in knowing that the new person is not prohibited. If the transfer is unwound, the firearm is going back to the same person. Even should not be the person identified in the Federal Limits Apply paperwork, they either are or not themselves prohibited. A new prohibitee has not been armed.

[colt11]

I finally got my motorcycle endorsement added to my driver's license last year, but since it was close to expiring, they had me renew my license. My old license was a pre-real ID type and still valid, but the DMV clerk grabbed it and home punched it. I did not know this invalidates it. Drove 4 hours to Martin R. Retting in Culver City the following day to sell a couple of rifles, but the shop refused to accept my hole punched ID or the temporary license that I had to go with it.

[kemasa]

I finally got my motorcycle endorsement added to my driver's license last year. My license was still valid, but the DMV clerk grabbed it and home punched it. Drove 4 hours to Martin R. Retting in Culver City, to sell a couple of rifles, but they refused to accept my hole punched ID.

Yep, the DMV likes to do that and since the paper copy of an ID/DL isn't acceptable for firearms, it creates a problem.

I think that part of the problem is getting official information as to what should be done. The answers varies depending on who answers the question. What I was told by a person that I trust is that if the firearm has to be returned to the seller, that is when they need to meet all of the ID requirements. They could also do the transfer of rifles as a normal transfer, although then it wouldn't be fee limited by law, although they could choose to charge the same fee to get it done.

[code_blue]

If a FFL is going to do a PPT for a lousy $35, why should he have to take the risk that the seller have the requisite ID should the firearm have to be returned to him in another DROS? Some sellers could get real upset and nasty if the are unable to get their firearm back and it is turned over to the police.

By edit, I'll take a crack at answering my own question. If at the PPT goes through, ownership and possession of a firearm is transferred to a new person. The state has an interest in knowing that the new person is not prohibited. If the transfer is unwound, the firearm is going back to the same person. Even should not be the person identified in the Federal Limits Apply paperwork, they either are or not themselves prohibited. A new prohibitee has not been armed.

I've run into the scenario where buyer was denied and turns out that the seller was prohibited via DVRO order, so we could not return to the seller. We determined that the best course of action was to turn over to PD and have them store it.

That was a jacked up situation.

[Chewy65]

Sure. I would expect that some sellers would fail a return DROS. When they acquired the firearm the ground for prohibition may not have existed, there may have been no backround check requirement back then, a prior background check may have simply failed to pick up something, many have firearms that should have been registered though the owner didn't realize the requirement at the time, and etcetera.

And I see that the question I answered wasn't even the one I asked about risking having to do a return DROS to a seller without real ID. I was trying to explain why a seller in possession might turn out to be prohibited. Remember, passing a previous background check is only supposed to determine that you were not a prohibited person at that moment in time; not that something didn't later happen to prohibit you.

[kemasa]

There is no return DROS. If the buyer is denied, then a background check is done on the seller and if the seller passes the check, then a number is given to allow the return to the seller. A 4473 is filled out and the background check number is used. There is no waiting period. Only the original CA PPT DROS is done.

[edgerly779]

Tried to do dros at western firearms in Bell today. seller had non real dl. I have all proper docs we were denied. Said he needed passport or birth cert. He had a utility bill as well.

[crufflers]

Last I heard the "Federal Limits Apply" CA DL were no good... need Real ID, Birth Cert or Passport.

People with the old CA DL are GTG.

[edgerly779]

^^^ This whole thread is about sellers!!!

[crufflers]

^^^
Last time I was doing a PPT both parties needed to be documented like that... three different places. I don't now about everyplace, but a few LGS and also Sportsman's Warehouse.

"Federal Limits Apply" CA DL were no good... need Real ID, Birth Cert or Passport.

People with the old CA DL are GTG.

You can be the seller all day long but you will waste your time if you don't know the buyer needs to have the docs too... and they show up with the "Federal Limits Apply" CA DL and no clue.

[edgerly779]

I was buyer today like I said. Just wondering if seller needs real id or additional docs. I have all the proper docs.