When does the rapture take place?

[Not a Cook]

Remember that the AC comes to earth impersonating Christ and claiming to be the prince of peace. That means he will play that role, but to do evil things such as wholesale killing of those who will not worship him: he will have "his people" for that to protect his image as a peace maker. The AC will have minions or beings with him to carry this out, so it will very likely be that the AC will be the head of a very large (one world order) of whom MANY claim to be "of Christ" (working for him) and some of them will also have supernatural powers which they will use to convince people of this.... hence the warning about false messiahs and prophets.

As an aside: I know I'm in the minority, but I do not believe there will be "a one world order" as is commonly taught because there will still be multiple nations and some of them will rise against the antichrist.

Warning: This next part is pure speculation, so feel free to disregard completely: I personally expect the final antichrist to be the Muslim-counterfeit-Christ who is referred to in the Koran as "Issa". In Islam, this "Issa" is claimed to be the Christ and is prophesied as one who will return, show great signs, and then tell the Christians that they have misunderstood him and perverted the truth, and it is then prophesied in Islam that this "Issa" will then order the Christians to stop following him and instead follow the Muslim idol, receive the bismillah (a mark of submission to the Muslim idol - sound like the "mark of the beast"?), or else be slain. I expect that those who THINK they are Christians but actually aren't (ref. Matthew 7:21-23) will renounce their supposed faith in Christ, turn from any pretense of following Him, and instead receive the bismillah (which I think will be the "mark of the beast") and embrace this "Issa" and follow the Muslim idol to their own destruction. That said, I write all this speculation simply to show there are additional possible ways that the final antichrist may appear which you may not have considered.

[turinreza]

Read my eBook if you want the proper time line of events. If you do not know who the antichrist is or know how to calculate his number you won't know what happens in the end times.

NOT A COOK going against Sola scriptura by citing Islamic texts? Isn't that a little hypocritical? Are you only allowed to do so?Tsk tsk.

[Not a Cook]

Read my eBook if you want the proper time line of events. If you do not know who the antichrist is or know how to calculate his number you won't know what happens in the end times.

Oh boy... here goes: In case anyone missed the thread about turinreza's eBook, be warned: quite a number of us in that thread have noted that what he's teaching contradicts the Scriptures. He claims he has "biblical proof" of many things, but can't back it up, and instead contradicts basic teachings of the Scriptures. I called him out for being a false teacher in that thread, so now he's here wanting to accuse me of hypocrisy. Surprise, surprise!

NOT A COOK going against Sola scriptura by citing Islamic texts? Isn't that a little hypocritical? Are you only allowed to do so?Tsk tsk.

turinreza - two things:
1) I noted that what I wrote regarding what I expect to happen with the final antichrist is pure speculation. I could be wrong. I did NOT claim that I have "biblical proof" for any of this speculation. In fact, I very clearly stated that it is speculation that may be ignored.

2) No... there's nothing hypocritical about what I wrote. Nothing I wrote contradicts the Scriptures (if you think it does, please challenge me on specific details). When I teach the Scriptures, I am very careful to note ANYTHING that is my personal opinion and/or speculation so that those I teach know that those particular points MAY or MAY NOT BE true. I did so in this thread. On that note:

The Scriptures prophesy the coming of the final antichrist. If you've ever read the Koran and the hadiths (which, to be clear, I DON'T recommend) AFTER studying the Scriptures, you'll notice that the Islamic-good-guy-"Issa" sounds VERY MUCH like the final antichrist prophesied in the Scriptures. "Issa" will come in the name of Christ, declare himself to be Christ, reign seven years, force his followers to take a mark, command them to follow the Muslim idol, and have those who refuse to do take the mark and follow the Muslim idol put to death. I'm not saying the Koran or the hadiths are true - quite the opposite! The Koran and the hadiths are demonic in origin. However, their expected "good guy" sure sounds a lot like the final antichrist whom the Scriptures predict. Maybe he will be the final antichrist; maybe not. I strongly suspect he will be the final antichrist, but since the Scriptures don't specifically state that, I can't be sure, which is why I noted that it is only speculation.

[turinreza]

I get it. Jewish tradition bad. Islamic plagiarism good.

[Not a Cook]

I get it. Jewish tradition bad. Islamic plagiarism good.

No, actually you don't get it. But for the sake of all the those participating in this thread, please try to stay on-topic.

[Sailormilan2]

No where does it state that Moses and Elijah will return. It says the two witnesses would be killed for a while and then would be raised up again to witness for God. We non-dispensationalists understand that the church at Rome buried the Bible and began other teachings. They killed the bible for a time. Then Guttenberg and his printing press, along with Luther and the Reformers brought the two witnesses back to life. The Old Testment, and the New Testament. The two Witnesses that give the testimony of God.

Christ Himself says that Elijah(Elias) will return. Matt.17:11. However, in the next verse He then says that Elijah(Elias) has already returned, meaning John the Baptist.
Which creates a problem. How can one come in the future, when one has already come in the past? (This is a similar problem for those who believe Antiochus Epiphanese is the Abomination.)
But, when the Jews came to John the Baptist and asked him, Art thou Elias? His reply was, "No". John 1:21 Even John the Baptist said he was not "Elijah"(Elias).
Personally, I think that Christ was referring to John the Baptist being a spiritual Elijah, with the true Elijah coming at a later time.
Mark 9:11-13
Matt.17:10-12
While it may not specifically say in the Bible that Both will appear, the Jews had other writings they used and they may have been going by that. Quite frankly, if it was just Elijah who was to appear, I don't see why both Moses and Elijah had to appear on the Mount, when all that was needed was Elijah.
I have grown up the the 2 Witnesses being the OT and NT, but I was taught that they were "killed" and lay dead when the French did away with the Bible after the French Revolution. I no longer ascribe to that.

[Just Dave]

Okay first thing. Comforting each other is something we do to help persevere under trials. It's not a "hey don't worry, God is going to make sure you don't have to suffer", it's more like "No matter what you may have to endure in this life, you have the promise of eternal life and everything that comes with it"

Just because the tribulation is not mentioned in John's gospel doesn't mean anything. It just wasn't mentioned.

Jesus returns ONCE. When he does every one of Earth, believe and unbeliever alike, will see him and KNOW who he is. We will be caught up in the air to meet Christ, everyone else gets killed and this world passes away.

It would be nice to think that the Christians living in that time get to leave early... well some will, but not through the rapture. We have Christians leaving this world all the time! Those of us that remain on the earth are the light of the earth! We are not going to be taken away, God is not going to hide the lamp under a basket. Quite the opposite, as He Himself taught us in Matthew 5:14-16:

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[a] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

There will be Christians to testify and until the end, when there is no one left to witness to.

If you read the verses leading up to verse 18 in 1 Thess 4 those were the words that Paul says to comfort each other with.
He doesn't say take cover.

Just because the tribulation is not mentioned in John's gospel doesn't mean anything. It just wasn't mentioned.

In John's gospel we have 14:3 instead.
Matthew is addressed to the Jews.
Mark is addressed to the Romans
Luke is addressed to academia/Greeks
All 3 of these gospels mention the tribulation in detail.

John's gospel is addressed to believers and believers aren't called to God's wrath, this is why you don't see the trib mentioned.

Jesus returns ONCE. When he does every one of Earth, believe and unbeliever alike, will see him and KNOW who he is. We will be caught up in the air to meet Christ, everyone else gets killed and this world passes away

During the rapture Jesus doesn't return to earth. In 1st Thess 4:17 we meet the Lord in the air, the word in the Greek is aēr it means lower atmosphere IIRC the summit of Mount Olympus is the reference.
This is the come and receive you to Myself/meet the Lord in the air part the we see in John 14:3 and 1 Thess 4:17

After the rapture takes place the world is going to be radically changed. the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit is going to be taken away and Satan is going to have a longer leash 2 Thess 2:7 (the salvation ministry of the Holy Spirit is going to continue).

People who've heard about Jesus during this time are going to realize they've blown it and some will give their lives to Christ, these are the saints who will have to endure the tribulation.