Sad Situation

[micro911]

I have seen many threads on Calguns that people saying they don't trust police, and they don't call them.

That is heavy.. I have had maybe 2 or 3 citizen complaints including one from the National Organization for Women in my 28 years of service compared to many commendations. I will be gone in about a year, but hope situation gets better.

I don't know if everyone had bad experiences with police in person or they heard about it on TV or something. I hope the trust returns.. I trusted everyone of my fellow LEO's, who I worked with, with my life.

[billd]

I am not in law enforcement. I respect and trust officers. I do not trust the media that promotes sensationalism the puts many officers in a bad situation.

Thank you for your service as a peace officer.

[teg33]

Because a few of bad apple, a whole Department reputation is tarnished.

[IrishJoe3]

Tegg, its far more than that and much less one sided

[TRICKSTER]

You are talking about Calguns OT. You must take into account that there is a small, vocal, core of individuals here that flat out hate authority in any form. Ignore the haters, look at your actual experience in dealing with the people on your beat instead. I dealt with thousands of people during my career and the attitude reflected by some here reflect more of the sovereign citizens, gangbangers, cop haters, dopers and criminals that I dealt with than the average honest person.
One must remember that the reality is that they are the disgruntled few with a voice magnified and emboldened by the anonymity of the internet. Let your real world experience be your guide. Just treat their comments as you would the comments on Copwatch as it appears that some of the same people are here on Calguns.

[sanjoseskater]

Most small town police are great, the bigger city departments have a lot more issues. In San Jose they went from 1500 cops to 800(not there fault voters approved stupid measure) Unless your severely injured or a tech company the police will not investigate or care about you. Someone hit and run my girlfriend then drove 110mph getting away, multiple witness with license plates but they didn't care to investigate someone that could have killed during there get away.

[POLICESTATE]

Because a few of bad apple, a whole Department reputation is tarnished.

It works like that for just about any group. Just how people are.

[TRICKSTER]

For those who are worried and don't believe that there is a huge disconnect between the cop haters here on Calguns and the real world.

http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-poll-police-20140914-story.html

Overall, 82% of California voters agreed that local police have a tough job and for the most part do it well.

[IlDuche]

2-3 complaints in 28 years?? I tip my hat to that sir! Did(does) your agency handle complaints themselves or do you guys have an outside independent whatever that does it?

Google OCC San Francisco and you'll see what I mean by outside whatever.

[StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca]

I have seen many threads on Calguns that people saying they don't trust police, and they don't call them.

That is heavy.. I have had maybe 2 or 3 citizen complaints including one from the National Organization for Women in my 28 years of service compared to many commendations. I will be gone in about a year, but hope situation gets better.

I don't know if everyone had bad experiences with police in person or they heard about it on TV or something. I hope the trust returns.. I trusted everyone of my fellow LEO's, who I worked with, with my life.

I have personally had a bad experience with a Officer and it has seriously shaken my faith in not only individual Officers but their agencies. Would you still have faith if this happened to you?

The abbreviated version:

* After leaving a wedding reception and while stopped at a stop light a PD unit rear ends your wife's car. Wife is driving.

*During the initial contact by Officer your wife stays seated behind the wheel while you exit the passenger side in the Officers immediate presence. You exit again after the Officer has your Wife move the vehicle to a side street.

*At the conclusion of the collision investigation and prior to leaving you decide to photograph the damage to the vehicle. Up until this point everything is kosher.

* Immediately after photographing the vehicle you are pulled aside by the Officer that TC'ed you and accused of being the driver. He also says he knows you have been drinking. You had been drinking but that is why your wife was driving.

* You tell him that you weren't driving but he says he saw you get out of the vehicle on the drivers side and he has this on his dash cam.

* You are elated that this incident is on dash cam but all the Officers refuse to review the dash cam or to check the seating positions and mirror positions.

* You consent to a FST and breathalyzer and blow two .04's.

* After much insistent pleading that you weren't driving you were released.

*A few weeks later you request and receive a copy of the collision investigation report. You note that the involved officer stated on the report that he identified you as the driver. The RO also identifies you as the driver throughout the report.

*You note on the report that there was an Explorer riding with this Officer and he correctly identified you as exiting the passenger side contradicting the Officer.

* After filing a citizen complaint you are told that the dash cam wasn't working and that the Explorer has now "changed his mind" and now thinks he saw you get out of the drivers side. The IA Sgt. enquires as to why your wife's purse was in the passenger foot well if she was driving. You then ask him would it be safe to keep it in the drivers foot well while driving. Since you don't recall where your wife's purse was you ask her and she tells you it wasn't even in the passenger foot well it was in the backseat. You ask the IA Sgt. which side of the vehicle did the officer say he approached on? He says the passenger side. You then ask the Sgt. why did he approach on the passenger side? He replies because that is where you were standing. You then ask then why was I standing there? He replies, because you probably got out of the drivers side and walked over to the passenger side. You reply, so it couldn't be because I got out of the passenger side? He replies, no I don't think so. Does this sound like an impartial investigation?

* The "investigation" is concluded and determined to be "unfounded". The Officer is now emboldened to continue these type of shenanigans since it appears nothing will happen to him.

Prior to this incident I would have always given LEO the benefit of the doubt and they had my full support. The fact that I ran into a bad apple was bad enough. But that his agency condones his behavior and went as far as to deny the incident was on dash cam and quite possibly coerced the one witness that corroborated my side to recant is just unforgivable. Unfortunately I do not think his agencies response to misconduct is unique.

So after going through this and after reading about countless other cases throughout the years where misconduct seems to be real and substantiated but without any real accountability, unfortunately there is little trust left for me to give. Coming within a hair of getting arrested for doing nothing wrong will do that to you. I don't think every cop is untrustworthy but it is the unknown of what type of cop your dealing with that weighs so heavily. This is compounded by my belief that if he/she did commit misconduct nothing would be done about it. I too sincerely hope the atmosphere will change for the positive but until everyone including LEO's are willing to admit that there is a serious problem with holding bad officers accountable I fear it will only get worse.

[StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca]

You are talking about Calguns OT. You must take into account that there is a small, vocal, core of individuals here that flat out hate authority in any form. Ignore the haters, look at your actual experience in dealing with the people on your beat instead. I dealt with thousands of people during my career and the attitude reflected by some here reflect more of the sovereign citizens, gangbangers, cop haters, dopers and criminals that I dealt with than the average honest person.
One must remember that the reality is that they are the disgruntled few with a voice magnified and emboldened by the anonymity of the internet. Let your real world experience be your guide. Just treat their comments as you would the comments on Copwatch as it appears that some of the same people are here on Calguns.

Dismissing everyone who doesn't trust or is critical of the Police as "sovereign citizens, gangbangers, cop haters, dopers and criminals" isn't really helpful if your objective is to restore trust. I am none of the things you described unless wanting to see bad officers held accountable makes me a cop hater. If so then I am proud of that title. I have never been arrested, possess a secret security clearance, don't look like a dirt bag, no tickets for over 20 years, not even a tattoo. Contrary to popular belief, people can have legitimate grievances without being in the derogatory classifications you described.

[pacrat]

TRICKSTER's LA Times quote

Overall, 82% of California voters agreed that local police have a tough job and for the most part do it well.

That is a big vote of confidence from those polled. I am one of the 82%. Yet numbers, especially "poll numbers" can be terribly decieving. Such as the recent OT poll "Do You Trust Police". That was a loaded BS question from the get go. Asked for the express purpose to illicit a given response if answered honestly.

The Times poll numbers fail to mention that pro 82%, still leaves 18%. Or 6,840,000 "civilians" in Ca. alone, that think "PoPo" are badge heavy donut munching Aholes, just looking for a dog to shoot or a head to bust. That number is a damn shame. That number, is more than the entire population of many states.

The blame for that number being so large, is because of many societal failings. When mistakes are made, no matter who makes them. Reasons should be honestly and transparently sought and dealt with.

As the progenitor of modern LE. I wonder what Sir Robert Peel would have to say about the devisive "them v us" mentality that has become pervasive in modern society?

He said



I give a wave when a black n white or a slick rolls down my street. Sadly, the number of times that people give the finger instead is increasing.

JM2c

[LCU1670]

I trust and respect LEO's, BUT I have noticed over the years the shift from Warriors to Social Workers (mentality) that does irk some people.

[WyattandDoc]

Dismissing everyone who doesn't trust or is critical of the Police as "sovereign citizens, gangbangers, cop haters, dopers and criminals" isn't really helpful if your objective is to restore trust. I am none of the things you described unless wanting to see bad officers held accountable makes me a cop hater. If so then I am proud of that title. I have never been arrested, possess a secret security clearance, don't look like a dirt bag, no tickets for over 20 years, not even a tattoo. Contrary to popular belief, people can have legitimate grievances without being in the derogatory classifications you described.

Trickster NEVER dismissed EVERYONE in his post you quoted. His post was articulate and respectful. He simply brought out some entities that we all know are on here, NOT everyone. Twisting the meaning of people's posts doesn't do anybody any good.

[WyattandDoc]

What LE needs more of, is COPS (Community Oriented Policing) at the station level. We have strayed from that very effective philosophy, mostly because of budget cuts.

We have some leaders that think we're going to arrest our way out of all our issues. Not a chance.

We need to get back to the grass roots community efforts. This does three things. It regains trust, promotes communication and gives the people/cops a true understanding of what goes on from each other's perspective. Transparency and understanding are bi-products of this and will reduce frustration when delicate/controversial issues arise.