Sad Situation

[CBR_rider]

I think a personal experience plays a big role on the impression of the organization, where one experience IS IT. And, the perception through the media plays a big roles, too.

Unfortunately, for media, the story doesn't sell unless it is sensational this day and age. What more is stronger than police misconduct or some related subject? Every time I spoke to a reporter, I rarely see the story that was true to my interview. Many times, they changed the story the way they wanted it for the most part. I don't know if the reporter was ignorant or doesn't care about the truth.

I just wish everyone understands it is a tough job, and we try to do our best, at least vast majority of us do.

Or how about when the media had footage of an entire OIS and HANDS OVER AN EDITED VERSION AFTER DELETING ALL OTHER VERSIONS DESPITE COURT ORDERS TO PROVIDE THE ORIGINAL?? I too have "been there" on many incidents the news found noteworthy and its really horrific how many times the news media twists them to fit their own agenda (whatever agenda it may be). I sometimes see the news and have to re-watch to make sure it is in fact about the same incident that I was on.

[1CavScout]

I do not believe a LEO should ever be in too much of a hurry to give a person a proper chance to disarm and surrender, cover or not.

The situation and the type of weapon the person has will dictate how much time they get.

If you roll up on someone that is pointing a gun at you, you are going to engage and eliminate the threat as quick as possible.

If you roll up on someone with an edged weapon, and you have a barrier between you and they are not a threat to anyone else, they will be given more of a chance to disarm.

Every situation is different.

[micro911]

I do not believe a LEO should ever be in too much of a hurry to give a person a proper chance to disarm and surrender, cover or not.

If the suspect presented an immediate threat to the life of a person, he/she has to be stopped. That is how I was trained.

[micro911]

The situation and the type of weapon the person has will dictate how much time they get.

If you roll up on someone that is pointing a gun at you, you are going to engage and eliminate the threat as quick as possible.

If you roll up on someone with an edged weapon, and you have a barrier between you and they are not a threat to anyone else, they will be given more of a chance to disarm.

Every situation is different.

Indeed it is different. I had a partner who was against a person with a broken crutch. The person pointed the sharp end of the crutch and advancing. My partner was backing up a good distance, maybe 30 yards while yelling at the person to drop the crutch. The person lunged at my partner, and he had to shoot to defend himself. It was a sad situation, but had to be done.

"An officer shot and killed a handicapped person." What would the public think when they see the article?

[1CavScout]

Indeed it is different. I had a partner who was against a person with a broken crutch. The person pointed the sharp end of the crutch and advancing. My partner was backing up a good distance, maybe 30 yards while yelling at the person to drop the crutch. The person lunged at my partner, and he had to shoot to defend himself. It was a sad situation, but had to be done.

"An officer shot and killed a handicapped person." What would the public think when they see the article?

Yeah, situations like that suck. You have to do what's needed to stop the threat though.

We had a guy with a knife in the living room of a house threatening us on a DV call. He was within 21', but we were able to keep a couch between us. My partner and I were able to spray him down with OC while giving him commands to drop the knife, and he eventually did. That was a situation that could have easily turned into a shooting, but we were fortunate to have been able to handle it with less force.

[micro911]

Yeah, situations like that suck. You have to do what's needed to stop the threat though.

We had a guy with a knife in the living room of a house threatening us on a DV call. He was within 21', but we were able to keep a couch between us. My partner and I were able to spray him down with OC while giving him commands to drop the knife, and he eventually did. That was a situation that could have easily turned into a shooting, but we were fortunate to have been able to handle it with less force.

I know a lot of us have close call situations.

I almost shot a deaf man a long time ago. It was a dark night and a traffic stop situation in a dark street. Long story short, I decided to give the driver 2 seconds to live, while trying to figure his action. As it turned out, it was a good decision, and I am glad to this date that I didn't have to shoot him that night.

The news paper title "An officer shot and killed a deaf man" doesn't sound good at all.

[SloChicken]

I have seen many threads on Calguns that people saying they don't trust police, and they don't call them.

That is heavy.. I have had maybe 2 or 3 citizen complaints including one from the National Organization for Women in my 28 years of service compared to many commendations. I will be gone in about a year, but hope situation gets better.

I don't know if everyone had bad experiences with police in person or they heard about it on TV or something. I hope the trust returns.. I trusted everyone of my fellow LEO's, who I worked with, with my life.

I think that is the point that people have a problem with.

I am sure you trusted your fellow officers with your life - and I wouldn't expect any different (with very rare exception). But, I feel that many of the public, myself included feel there is a distinct us vs. them mentality amongst the officers and the public - myself included.

I work in EMS, I am uniformed and interact with various LEOs/COs on a regular basis. I really don't have a problem with any of them. Sometimes there is a little something in the air though - like a vibe that just isn't quite right and everybody is just a little less than comfortable as a result.
and that is when I am in uniform and working in a professional capacity.

I have been mistreated by officers when I did nothing wrong, and ended up on their 'field contact' paperwork. I was delayed, and basically made to feel like less than an equal. Of course, once I checked out, I was good to go. Still, the example your brother in blue that one time left with me lingers. I have seen and been party to that kind of treatment on more than just that one occasion.

On the other hand, you guys need to protect yourselves, and as you mentioned, need to protect each other. That make for kind of an opposing perspective, and by the treatment, the public follows suit.

I think if there was more neighborhood policing (feet on the street) the community would begin to know the officers as more than "that cop", and recognize them as individuals with a job to do.
In turn, the officers would get a better grasp of who to prone out, and who to take a little break to say hi to.

Just my take, and worth every cent you paid.

I will say this,

I was burgled some 10 years ago.
the officer that took my report was an acquaintance of mine as we surf the same spot down in southern cabo and I had seen her there much over the years.

Some 2-3 weeks later, I am driving down the street, I get lit up and when I pull over, she runs up to my car window, tells me they caught the burglar and to call a certain detective in NV.

So, like I said, know the hood, and know the hoods.

Eh, whadda I know I am no cop.

[pacrat]

micro1911 said

No one needs to argue about their point of view in this thread. That was not my intention. I was just concerned about the subject.

As a concerned citizen. I thank you sir for starting this discussion. I also have great concerns regarding the lack of respect and trust shown for LE. And in some instances, vice versa. There is much to be learned from honest discourse for all citizens.

More civil discussion, leads to more shared views, and a broader understanding between folks who should not be advesarial in the first place.

TRICKSTER said,

The simple truth is that the safest cities are those where the population and the police work together as a team.

So true. When the citizenry and the cops are on the same team, where they belong. That puts the BGs on the losing team. Where they belong.

[SloChicken]

The problem with community oriented policing where I worked, is that it took away from actual people responding to calls. They cut patrol units in order to fund more COPPS positions.

The COPPS units were also a well known place for slugs to go hide and do the bare minimum to collect their paychecks. Some of the people did good work, but most were slugs IMO.

If I worked in a slow city where we were not backed up calls 24/7 I might me more supportive. I would have rather had those bodies in a black and white responding to calls.

I work in EMS, we just park our vehicle and get out and do whatever in our neighborhoods until we get a call. We are timely to get wheels rolling (within 2 min) and make response times with great consistency.

I don't see why parking, making small loops out of the vehicle couldn't be promoted and activated as a part of an expected duty during a shift.

Not to make anybody actually get out and walk or anything heh heh.

Seriously, I think most anyone could see the great benefit in neighborhood policing including officers in vehicles supporting officers on walking beats that also have available vehicles in an appropriate proximity. It wouldn't even have to be every day, just irregularly irregular ...

Again, it all comes down to money.

Which IMO is a very sad part about it all. You LEOs have a consistently difficult job to do. I commend you for it. And at the same time wonder what the heck you were thinking.
Just kidding about that part.
Kind of ...

Extending the difficulties in maintaining the safety of the public is the state's decision to disallow persons to have constitutionally appropriate means to protect themselves (CCW?) - given the aforementioned budgetary problems with adequate LE staffing per area/population.
I mean that is always a chief complaint of LE agencies everywhere, isn't it?
When was the last time you heard a Sheriff or Police Chief say, "Nah, we don't need more money, we's flush!" haha!

Just think how much easier it would be for police if you had an entire population, most of which are socially appropriate, non-criminal people - to be able to defend themselves? No more complaints about response times, better deterrence as the criminals will no longer have the advantage of weapons vs law abiding persons?

The thought of a little old lady standing over a thug that tried to take her purse and her sayin' "he pointed that knife at me and said give me your purse! and then ran at me with that knife! Well, there he is, right there on the ground ..."

That is the power of a legally carried handgun.

What are you guys thoughts on this?

[IrishJoe3]

I work in EMS, we just park our vehicle and get out and do whatever in our neighborhoods until we get a call. We are timely to get wheels rolling (within 2 min) and make response times with great consistency.

I don't see why parking, making small loops out of the vehicle couldn't be promoted and activated as a part of an expected duty during a shift.

Face-to-face interaction with the community is powerful. The officer is no longer a cruiser rolling past, there is now a face to attach. Here's the catch. You, a paramedic, are reactive. Law enforcement is expected to be proactive. Add the fact that in today's age, I'm often running to call to call. I simply don't have the time. That being said, on my daily patrol I do my best to stop and just chat with people; about the weather, the crops, their dog, whatever. Just take a minute to chat and be friendly.

Not to make anybody actually get out and walk or anything heh heh.

Seriously, I think most anyone could see the great benefit in neighborhood policing including officers in vehicles supporting officers on walking beats that also have available vehicles in an appropriate proximity. It wouldn't even have to be every day, just irregularly irregular ...

Again, it all comes down to money.

I agree on both counts. I'd like to see it happen to. But like you said; money.



Just think how much easier it would be for police if you had an entire population, most of which are socially appropriate, non-criminal people - to be able to defend themselves? No more complaints about response times, better deterrence as the criminals will no longer have the advantage of weapons vs law abiding persons?

The thought of a little old lady standing over a thug that tried to take her purse and her sayin' "he pointed that knife at me and said give me your purse! and then ran at me with that knife! Well, there he is, right there on the ground ..."

This is the epic and never ending facepalm of this forum. A large majority of your beat cops, ESPECIALLY outside of your huge urban centers, absolutely agree with that! Grandma would probably be hi-fived if it could be done in a professional manner. Yet any time there is a hint of gun laws/restrictions/blahblahblah, its always the beat cop that gets blamed and unloaded on.

I'm a range master for my agency and recently brought my own guns in to a training day to give the guys a better understanding of the complications of our existing gun laws. In my presentation I touched on the recent case out of San Diego that ruled good cause unconstitutional and to expect to see a lot more CCWs on the street. From a room full of beat cops, I received a loud and clear "GOOD!!!!

So...lets get back on the same team.....I'm not a bad guy.

In Bold

[IrishJoe3]

Thank you. What some don't seem to realize is that for every negative experience that they can think of with LE, a LEO can probably come up with 100 negative experiences that they had with some member of the public. The LEOs that I worked with did not let these negative experiences control what they thought of the public as a whole, and I'm sure that they would hope that the public would grant them the same consideration. The simple truth is that the safest cities are those where the population and the police work together as a team.

Very true! A Gun owner and survivalist who sounds a LOT like many members here ambushed and murdered two Pennsylvania State Troopers going home after a shift this last week. I haven't heard a single officer say a single negative towards gun owners or sportsmen. Because they understand this was the act of a single evil individual. Its sad that such logic is pretty rare to find here.

[MapleSyrupSmuggler]

I like cops, especially CHP, they make my job easier and safer by helping in lane blocking or just by having their lights on to slow motorists down in a tight situation. All leo's I have known growing up were nice and personable people who like to shooting and hunting.

[pterrell]

As someone else mentioned earlier, the smaller the town the fewer issues. I had a nice talk with a Nevada highway patrol once. He pulled me over for speeding ( in the middle of nowhere) partially because I was speeding, but also because he really needed to stretch his legs and suggested we take a walk around.

His point was clear, of course, but that kind of positive interaction needs to happen more often. Too many officers have a chip on their shoulder.


OP - thank you for your outstanding service! I hope you were able to mentor the junior officers in such a way that this tend might start to turn around.

[TRICKSTER]

Very true! A Gun owner and survivalist who sounds a LOT like many members here ambushed and murdered two Pennsylvania State Troopers going home after a shift this last week. I haven't heard a single officer say a single negative towards gun owners or sportsmen. Because they understand this was the act of a single evil individual. Its sad that such logic is pretty rare to find here.

Yep, this is an example of the type of logic and dishonesty that we find here.

Distrust of the police = scumbag. Huh Trickster.

[StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca]

Yep, this is an example of the type of logic and dishonesty that we find here.

Its a simple question with a very simple answer. But your evasiveness and hostile stance in answering it is a satisfactory answer for me anyways.