Anti LEO

[Falconis]

I can't say this enough, courts have recently said a government employer can do so if it effects their operations.

[oddjob]

Way back when...I remember a study by Playboy Magazine (I think) on best jobs to meet women. Phone installers were number #1. Cops were #2. That may be the core reason for the LEO bashing......and the half price meals we get! Start a thread on phone installers and see what happens!

[chrisdk02]

In reference to the rank and file LE helping the cause of gun rights in CA, I think many of us do. A majority of the cops I know, me included, are pro 2A/ pro shall issue/ pro standard capacity mags/ pro AW/ anti "safe handgun roster". I only arrest parolee's, probationers, felons, crooks, etc, for weapons violations. The decent people I have come across who were violating weapons laws have been given warnings and sent on their way. I have had this conversation with many of the deputies at my station as well as guys I know at other stations in my department and with few exceptions that is the sentiment expressed. I have heard the same from sergeants, lieutenants, captains, etc.

I will add, though, that I happen to work in a moderately conservative area. I know there are areas of this state that perhaps many of the cops have an opposite view. I think the variation of LE attitudes towards people with guns in some parts of California is influenced by the politics of the area. I don't like it and will do what I can to influence anti-gun sentiment by cops.

[Ubermcoupe]

Jdberger, "many LEOs receive CCWs upon retirement"

Actually, we can carry concealed pursuant to our Peace Officer Commission. We don't have to apply for a CCW, it's included as part of our retired credentials. The ability to carry can be rescinded by your boss for cause only.

And with HR218 its good throughout the USA...

[Ron-Solo]

Street cops could easily counter the propaganda of the Chiefs by loudly and clearly stating that they oppose gun control in all its forms. They've First Amendment rights. They have strong Unions to represent them should retaliation occur.

We, the people, are currently working our asses off. We could use a little help.

You obviosly do not understand how department policies work. I am expressly prohibited by policy from speaking to the media regarding department matters or representing the department in any way without my unit commander's permission, and I'm a senior lieutenant. Our sheriff is very anti gun, so speaking out as a member of law enforcement for guns on this department is suicide. I would be severely disciplined and there is nothing my union could do to prevent it. Just like on Calguns, there is no 1st Amendment in that regard.

The discipline is for each and every occurrance and is progressive in nature. 3 day suspension 1st time, 7-10 the second, 15+ to discharge for the third. FYI, a 10 day suspension equals a 1/2 months pay. for me, that's a $5,000+ fine.

[CSACANNONEER]

Here's a prime example of why so many people express anti-LEO feelings.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=404579

I can only wonder if the CCWer had been a LEO, would the officers have treated him the same way until they were satisfied that he was one of them? I think not.

While I am pro LEO, unfortunately, I (and many others here) do not express our positive views often enough. Instead, we express our disapointment in the way bad LEOs act. I know that I have been detained for 20 minutes for drinking a diet cole while driving. The officers were embarrassed so, they tried their hardest to find another reason to justify the stop. They even went as far as to demand ID from my passenger and run both of us.

To all the good LEOs out there, THANK YOU!

To all the bad LEOs out there, .........well, I don't feel like being banned but, you get the idea.

[cacop]

Here's a prime example of why so many people express anti-LEO feelings.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=404579

I can only wonder if the CCWer had been a LEO, would the officers have treated him the same way until they were satisfied that he was one of them? I think not.

While I am pro LEO, unfortunately, I (and many others here) do not express our positive views often enough. Instead, we express our disapointment in the way bad LEOs act. I know that I have been detained for 20 minutes for drinking a diet cole while driving. The officers were embarrassed so, they tried their hardest to find another reason to justify the stop. They even went as far as to demand ID from my passenger and run both of us.

To all the good LEOs out there, THANK YOU!

To all the bad LEOs out there, .........well, I don't feel like being banned but, you get the idea.

An SFPD officer came into our town and drove like an idiot on his motorcycle. He got pulled over and as our officer walked up he noticed a gun. Gunpoint. Handcuffs. Call to SFPD to confirm an officer.

As for talking to the press, etc. We can't give any statements or give an interview unless we have the permission of the chief of police. If the chief doesn't like what we are going to say he will not let us talk. If we do anyway we can be punished up to and including termination. If officers endorse political candidates they must do it without mentioning their being a member of our department. The only exception is our POA reps but they are speaking for the POA, not the city or the PD. The only time POA reps talk to the press is when we do some charity work and when we negotiate concessions.

One of the reasons why very few members of sheriff's departments will run against their boss is they can get jammed up for this. Look up Corona of Orange county and what he did to one of his Lts. who ran against him.

[jdberger]

You obviosly do not understand how department policies work. I am expressly prohibited by policy from speaking to the media regarding department matters or representing the department in any way without my unit commander's permission, and I'm a senior lieutenant. Our sheriff is very anti gun, so speaking out as a member of law enforcement for guns on this department is suicide. I would be severely disciplined and there is nothing my union could do to prevent it. Just like on Calguns, there is no 1st Amendment in that regard.

The discipline is for each and every occurrance and is progressive in nature. 3 day suspension 1st time, 7-10 the second, 15+ to discharge for the third. FYI, a 10 day suspension equals a 1/2 months pay. for me, that's a $5,000+ fine.

Yes. I do understand how department policies work. I can't represent my company either without express permission. Nor can I represent CGN, CGF or the CRPA. I'm not asking anyone to say that they're a member of Oakland PD and they think the AW ban is stupid.

I want them to say that they're a cop and they think the AW ban is stupid.

The difference here being that your employer is the Government which can't infringe on your 1A rights. (At least I think so)

Also, you're not purporting to represent your particular employer - only your profession.
Finally, the MEMBERSHIP is the Union. A concerted effort by the membership should be enough to get the Union to act - especially if there isn't any downside. What? The Union will piss off Management? That's their raison d'etre, anyway.

[BigDogatPlay]

[thread jack]

I frequently use the anti-LEO sentiment of society as a tool in my shift briefings to motivate my troops and me to continue to strive for perfection. The good people of our community deserve that. I'm wise enough to know that none of us here on earth will ever be absolutely perfect but, that philosophy works pretty well and the men and women on my shift(s) are willing to work hard and do the right things. For me, that reward is priceless.

Out-bleeping-standing.... the world needs more watch commanders and shift sergeants who can convey that kind of message, day in an day out.

Thanks for posting that. Made my day.

[/thread jack]

[tyrist]

Here's a prime example of why so many people express anti-LEO feelings.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=404579

I can only wonder if the CCWer had been a LEO, would the officers have treated him the same way until they were satisfied that he was one of them? I think not.

While I am pro LEO, unfortunately, I (and many others here) do not express our positive views often enough. Instead, we express our disapointment in the way bad LEOs act. I know that I have been detained for 20 minutes for drinking a diet cole while driving. The officers were embarrassed so, they tried their hardest to find another reason to justify the stop. They even went as far as to demand ID from my passenger and run both of us.

To all the good LEOs out there, THANK YOU!

To all the bad LEOs out there, .........well, I don't feel like being banned but, you get the idea.

Each situation is different and some of the most critical information is missing from that post. I will tell you a friend of mine at work had his firearm taken, hand cuffed, and placed into the back of the car while the Officers figured the situation out. When he finally asked the supervisor on scene if he could be released were the handcuffs removed.

None of us know exactly what the crime trends, suspect descriptions, or behaviors were specifically done which could have motivated any type of response. Just because somebody has a CCW doesn't mean they are not doing armed robberies or breaking into vehicles. Hell think of any crime you can and I can find an former Officer who did the same thing.

[BigDogatPlay]

I want them to say that they're a cop and they think the AW ban is stupid.

You could ask Leroy Pyle how he was treated by his department when he was active and speaking out on RKBA. It wasn't pretty. I've long admired him for having the stones to step out and take a very carefully measured stand, but even staying within policy didn't keep him off the bosses radar.

I appreciate what you're arguing, but for the vast majority of guys who are still serving it's just not a practical thing for them to do to be outspoken in public and the media about RKBA. It quite literally can hang a target on their job.

I'm out and I can say whatever I want, but since I am out, my words wouldn't carry the kind of weight that those of someone, or many someones, still serving would. Catch 22.

[oddjob]

Lots of folks don't realize what an agency can do to you and still be within the playing field. You could be assigned to school resource, custody, dispatch, records, desk duty (counter reports), and removed from assignments like SWAT, traffic, investigations, range and etc. All under the rule of "all other duties as assigned." Any future promotions could be dead for your career.

There was an instance in my agency where a female LEO was supposed to be in her brother's wedding party. Supervisor told her she couldn't go and had to work (her day off). The supervisor tells her to go ahead and file a grievance. She will win the battle, but lose the war. She missed her brother's wedding. The supervisor later promoted several ranks up.

The argument of "he/she is on her own time" means nothing. I know it sounds like a day time soap opera, but folks this stuff really happens. People have long memories in this line of work.

[jdberger]

I get this.

I understand that losing your job in a competitive field is frightening.
I realize that when you speak out, you don't simply put yourself at risk, but you risk the livelihoods of your family and sometimes your friends.
I get that the nail which stands proud gets hammered down first.

I understand that you (the R&F LEOs who frequent CGN) know what's right. I know that they venerate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I know that they also care deeply for their families and friends.

I have no doubt.

The question is - when are they willing to stand up? When are they willing to stop operating the levers and the gears of oppression? When are they willing to tell their Masters, "No!"?

It's easy for the Brass to harass and fire one officer who publicly disagrees with them. How easy is it to fire 100? Strength in numbers. Unions should have explained this the day you sent in your first check for dues.

LEOs aren't the only folks who might potentially lose jobs in this fight. There are plenty of folks stretching they're necks in service of The Cause. They know that should the be caught at work advocating for 2A rights, they'll be escorted out of the building. Their families are on the line, too.

Rosa Parks risked time in jail for a simple ride on a bus......



Inevitably, the question will arise...."what have I put on the line?"

Answer: "Everything."

Fight.

or don't.

But if you're not gonna fight for us - at least get the heck out of the way.

[Tripper]

Hmm, jd, I think that's one of your best posts

[Tripper]

Sorry I'm being judgemental for a moment