Anti LEO

[yzErnie]

I recognize that many (most, even) LEOs support gun rights. You have a reading comprehension problem. However, standing idly by while rights are being stripped from fellow citizens - when you have a unique power to make change for the better is "standing in the way".

Again, I'm not suggesting that anyone engage in advocacy on duty, or in identifiable uniform. If you'd read my previous posts, you would have seen that.

Reading comprehension problem?...that is to funny. I don't pat myself on the back very often because that is not the way I do business. Did you read my previous post where I said I am an career law enforcement officer AND I am also a licensed gun dealer? For God's sake man, I sell hundreds of guns a year and my department is ok with that. How about me adding that I am also a department firearms instructor as well as a CaDoJ certified instructor for handgun and long gun. I teach firearm education and safety to civic groups. Our business and my wife and I personally donate to the organizations who help further our protections under the 2A. I am tolerant of the UOC craze that has swept the state.

You probably won't find a better advocate for our rights than me. I have 320+ positive feedbacks on the CGN iTrader without one negative or neutral comment. I didn't earn that rating by being an anti-gun advocate. How much farther can I go to champion the cause? Before I posted this you didn't know a thing about me or what I have done to promote the cause yet you post ignorant comments insunuating I am not doing my part. That is truly assinine on your part.

[Lrchops]

lol. you have got to be joking with me . You must be on this site trolling because there is no way that response is for real. At least I hope that's whats going on because if not, you really are embarrassing yourself.

The only thing I do is state the truth. I don't sugar coat it for you left wing liberals who cannot handle the truth! Go take a seat with Rosanne Barr or Rosie Odonell, because you fit right in with thier twisted view on society!

[jdberger]

What did I mean by that? If you're not going to publicly support us, at the very least, don't publicly oppose us.

I doubt there is a single CalGuns LEO here that would publicy oppose gun rights, adn your insinuation is offensive. Your attitude in this entire thread has been confrontational in my opinion.

I agree - I don't think most CGN LEOs would publicly oppose gun rights. But they might attend a buy-back or be instructed to serve as background while DiFi sweeps the press room with an AK. I'm also trying to be confrontational. I'm trying to get people (LEOs in this case) to think about what they can personally do to further the cause.

Don't take part in political gun control events. Don't appear in politician's background shots when they're displaying some new ominous piece of weaponry that needs to be banned immediately. Don't appear at "gun buybacks". Don't show up to anti-gun events.

Call in sick. Blue flu. Don't be a part of the machine of oppression.

Once again, when given a lawful order, even if we do not agree with it, we are subject to severe discipline if we trefuse to follow that order

I'll say it again - Blue Flu. If you vehemently opposed abortion, would you serve a background to a politicians pro-abortion rally?

As far as speaking out - the law's on your side. See Pickering v. Board of Education, 391 U.S. 563 (1967).

I'm not saying that any LEO who doesn't go out tomorrow and denounce his CoP's gun control stance is a coward. What I'm suggesting is that LEOs start thinking about how they can leverage their positions to further our rights. I'm acknowledging that it takes a big brass set to do so, though. I'm also acknowledging that it's not within everyone's comfort zone to engage in that level of activism.

You don't seem to grasp the concept that we are prohibited by law from engaging in political activities while on duty or representing the department

For the bazillionth time, I'm not suggesting that any LEO "[engage] in political activities while on duty or representing the department"

Again, I'm not suggesting that anyone engage in advocacy on duty, or in identifiable uniform. If you'd read my previous posts, you would have seen that.

In essence - I agreed with you and even backed off a bit. Sorry that you didn't see it that way.

You need to do more than back off a bit

Why? Because this dialogue makes some people uncomfortable? Isn't this the essence of debate? Isn't this the raison d'etre of this forum?

If LEOs join us en masse - there's nothing we can't do. If they decline to do so then we've lost nothing. We're simply where we started.

JD, your comments are becoming offensive. You don't have a good grasp on how LE functions and you are spouting off like an expert. It is attitudes like yours that turn off LEO's from participating in CalGuns.

I do. And I've explained multiple times that I know that there's a potential for hardship, threat of disciplinary action, threat of loss of job and threat to career. It's unclear why you're seem to be missing those parts of my posts.

And your photos of almost 50 year old tactics from the deep south civil rights movement are offensive in the context you use them.

What context? The context of heroes who put it all on the line for something that they believe in? Folks who knew, without a doubt, that their day was likely to end poorly, yet they still stepped onto that bridge in Alabama? How could veneration of that kind of selfless courage be offensive?

yzernie - Your actions are admirable. Reaching out to to the public by teaching gun safety is important. Thank you.

However - you seem to be missing the thrust of my position - that LEOs, publicly identified as such, have a unique position of leadership in society. They can influence people. They can influence politicians. They can sway the course of public opinion. They can blunt the percieved legitimacy of IACP (who receive hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Joyce Foundation).

Resulting public pressure can undo oppressive and Byzantine legislation like the AW ban, the handgun roster, 10 day wait and "may issue" CCW laws.

Isn't that a win for everybody? Isn't everyone a little more free with that result?

I'm not trying to insult any LEO here. I'm trying to illustrate how POWERFUL you are due to your positions in the community. I'm trying to illustrate what an amazing and unstoppable force for change you could be. And I'm trying to impart how desperately we need you to help us.

[chewy352]

Whether you consider it's anti LEO or anti authority, it's there. I think most statements can attest to that directly. People can't seem to figure out it's the legislatures who are driving the wedge and like everything else people want to target the LEO's to blame cause that's who they see most and first.

I mean hell, you just had someone post a thread on why people had to be civil in the LEO forum and try to conjur some BS reasoning ( my opinion). I honestly do believe that they are trying to drive a wedge between us and it's working. There is a lot of resentment towards LEO to begin with and that in of itself was a good tool to use. I for one do see myself as a citizen first cause that's what I was and will be upon retirement. Whether people want to accept me as such is there problem.

As far as all the feelings of resentment, I do agree that it does suck that we can do things you guys can't. But how is that the fault of the LEO's? I won't get into all the reasons why it is allowed, but I will say just remember who is allowing it. LEGISLATURES.

Bottom line, the resentment towards authority and LEO's are invariably intertwined here. By the very nature of our job, we do things that make people unhappy. Some people don't like feeling they don't have the power to overcome certain things and they lash out at anyone who does have that power. That can probably be proven by the number of people that moderators have threatened to ban from the LEO forum or the site. I wonder if any bans have been carried out for those reasons.

This just all reminds me of war protestors spitting on the soldiers instead of the politicians who drafted them into the Vietnam war.

Ok I'm done ranting

Yes the legislatures are doing it but everytime they chip away at our 2A rights all the LEO community associations and unions support them.

[HIG541]

The only thing I do is state the truth. I don't sugar coat it for you left wing liberals who cannot handle the truth! Go take a seat with Rosanne Barr or Rosie Odonell, because you fit right in with thier twisted view on society!

Take it easy Col. Nathan R. Jessep. . .

Aren't you a part of a union? You do realize labor groups, I.E. Civil Servants, fall way to the left on the political scale, right?
What is my twisted view of society by the way? I don't recall ever stating that here in this forum. In fact, If you actually took the time to read what I said, instead of becoming angry and reactionary, you would see that I mostly agreed with you. I did not, however, agree with your blanket statements of "all" and "every" and other such all inclusive words which damaged your point.

I don't mind so much that your syntax and grammar are terrible, but if you could at least try and formulate a coherent message every now and then you would really help your cause.

[yzErnie]

yzernie - Your actions are admirable. Reaching out to to the public by teaching gun safety is important. Thank you.

However - you seem to be missing the thrust of my position - that LEOs, publicly identified as such, have a unique position of leadership in society. They can influence people. They can influence politicians. They can sway the course of public opinion. They can blunt the percieved legitimacy of IACP (who receive hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Joyce Foundation).

Resulting public pressure can undo oppressive and Byzantine legislation like the AW ban, the handgun roster, 10 day wait and "may issue" CCW laws.

Isn't that a win for everybody? Isn't everyone a little more free with that result?

I'm not trying to insult any LEO here. I'm trying to illustrate how POWERFUL you are due to your positions in the community. I'm trying to illustrate what an amazing and unstoppable force for change you could be. And I'm trying to impart how desperately we need you to help us.

I know what the jist of your mesage is and you left out a very important in what I do with the community, I not only teach safety but I educate as well. Without going into all of the details the education I do is all inclusive. I cannot do them on-duty and I cannot do them in uniform but I do make it perectly clear what I do for a living. So based upon what you are saying, when I am doing my education/safety programs and the fact that I identify myself as a 32+ year LE veteran does not carry any weight? If that doesn't suffice as good enough for you then I don't know what will.

You have to remember that we have lives outside of the job, just as you do. In my off duty time I have my family that is above all else, I also have occasional court appearances, I run a business in my off-duty time, I have a special needs stepson, I have my own sons, I have engagements to speak, I have property and animals to maintain and on and on.

I do what I can, I do a good job at it and I make a positive impression to those effected. However, no matter how hard someone tries to do the right things and be a positive model for the cause(s) someone else who thinks what you do is never good enough has to drop a brick on their head. Frustrating.

[Falconis]

Yes the legislatures are doing it but everytime they chip away at our 2A rights all the LEO community associations and unions support them.

Untrue. A lot do. Some do. Not all do. Union heads are people and as such have their own opionions. If our union head tried to support an anti 2A thing, it's doubtful he would get a nights sleep. How did you get your figure of ALL unions and LEO. I never did.

[Samuelx]

Just because a law enforcemnet special interest group - whether it be an association, union, whatever - has a certain opinion, that doesn't mean the LEOs they are supposedly representing feel the same way. Otherwise, I guess everyone here voted for Obama, right? I mean, after all, he got ALL of CA's electoral votes, right?

And, if you think LEOs have juice when it comes to making changing policies, laws, legislation, etc - you must be high. We can't even get tougher penalties for crimes, especially against killing or seriously hurting us. Shoot, it's Lucky if/when we are able to get some cop-killer's parole denied...

If ANYTHING, LE needs more support from regular folks, NOT the other way around!

[AJAX22]

Ok, so how about forming a 'police officers for the second ammendment' association? You may not be able to speak out while in uniform but you CAN leverage your status to promote the 2a.

Seriously, it's not overly hard, just time consuming and requires a litle bit of money (less than 500)

Im willing to help if any LEO's want to get organized.

[Notorious]

Yep, I would be happy to see the community empower their police first because we sure need it!

[ballyhoo]

Falconis, please excuse me if I'm brief- I'm on a phone and it's not easy to type.

First, I was looking for a reason. I don't have one.

Second, I'm pretty sure that most departments issue pistols and magazines to their officers, which negates any reason for them to purchase their own for work.

Third, yes, I can say that that citizens in good standing should be treated equally under law. Lawyers shouldn't have rights not afforded to garbagemen. Dockworkers don't get privileges not afforded to accountants. It's not how our society works.

This isn't cutting of your arm because you can't use your fingers. LEOs are free to use AWs and non-rostered guns on duty. They're not being handicapped in any way.

4) Law enforcement isnt being singled out. Quite the opposite. They're being treated like everyone else. I also don't see anyone being "berated".

To summarize, I think that just about everyonebhere wants our cops well equipped. That includes access to a patrol rifle, whether it's an AR, AK, m14, whatever. What sticks in peoples craw is the pass to purchase non-rostered guns that aren't ( and won't) be used for duty simply because they are LEOs. The retention of private property (LEO purchased AWs) is a similar issue. At the very least, Departments should purchase them back from the LEO for retail.

Many departments don't issue weapons OR they give officers the choice, at their own expense to purchase a duty weapon. If the do issue, they issue 3 mags only, all others are at your own cost.

Off duty weapons are at your own cost and for some agencies the list of approved weapons is slim.

Being treated equally in our society is a great concept. Different treatment is everywhere, just look.

It is why my kid needs higher SAT's and everything else to get into state colleges that I pay taxes for. Other kids from outside our country, or kids from different socio-economic backgrounds get right in...just one example.

The most important part here was summarized best by the person who compared it to folks spitting on soldiers.

We should not waste energy worrying about the cops, their exemptions and the master plan of our government to drive wedges everywhere. That is silliness and a waste of our energy.

Some of these insane gun laws should be changed. The only way that happens is with a plan, money and votes.

[Lrchops]

Take it easy Col. Nathan R. Jessep. . .

Aren't you a part of a union? You do realize labor groups, I.E. Civil Servants, fall way to the left on the political scale, right?
What is my twisted view of society by the way? I don't recall ever stating that here in this forum. In fact, If you actually took the time to read what I said, instead of becoming angry and reactionary, you would see that I mostly agreed with you. I did not, however, agree with your blanket statements of "all" and "every" and other such all inclusive words which damaged your point.

I don't mind so much that your syntax and grammar are terrible, but if you could at least try and formulate a coherent message every now and then you would really help your cause.

Help what cause? You have failed to recognize that I am not angry! You damaged your own point by asserting an observation and conclusion that is false. The overall nature of your angst has diminished your credibility. Your ignorance is pronounced by your idea that a person in a particular career field would fall to the far left. By the way, I type fast and choose not to use spell check. Sorry!

[HIG541]

I never said you were angry, not too sure where you got that from. As for my "angst", that word means "A feeling of anxiety or apprehension often accompanied by depression", not sure where you pick that up in anything I wrote or how it has "diminished my credibility". Work on proper word usage and we can continue in a sensible manner.

[yzErnie]

OMFG, now we have the "Watch the cops grammer and punctuation Police" in here to hypercritique that too???!!!

[HIG541]

OMFG, now we have the "Watch the cops grammer and punctuation Police" in here to hypercritique that too???!!!

I just think that if you present yourself on this forum and try to make an argument, you should try and not come off as a complete and total dolt. People think that civil servants are uneducated rubes as it is. Oh wait, I forgot the mass amount of question marks and exclamation points!!!!!!!?????!?!??!??!?!??!?!??