Do LEO's get free ammo?

[Kodemonkey]

Understanding that the "free" ammo is paid for by our tax dollars......

.

I really think it is money well spent. The better the shooter, the less likely they are to injure a bystander. You can buy a lot of ammo for the cost of a unintentional death lawsuit.

I know the departments get the ammo pretty cheap - my LASD friend said that Winchester 9mm 147g SXT was $.12 a round last time he checked. They could give each member 100 rounds a day at that price and it would be cheaper than a few engine hours on the cruiser they are driving.

[BigDogatPlay]

I can see the issue of using your own ammo for duty. If an officer were to shoot a poor criminal the fact that the officer used his own loads would somehow come up in court, I sure hope not but one can expect anything from dirtbags these days.

The liability thing is, I think, causing a lot of agencies a lot of heartburn in our modern age.

FWIW, the late Jim Cirillo (NYPD Ret) was at one point one of the pre-eminent experts on police gun fighting if for no other reason than he was in so many (17 all together) during five years on the Stakeout Unit. His books and articles from over the years are still very relevant and I recommend them for the library of any LEO who is interested in surviving an armed encounter.

Cirillo let it be known after he had retired that he usually armed himself with non-issue JHP ammo because the 158 grain RNL that was NYPD issue was ridiculously anemic. Can't imagine how loudly lawyers and risk managers would squeak these days if LEOs were doing that regularly.

[SVT-40]

Before I retired I was able to shoot as much as I wanted to. Being the department armorer did have some benefits..

Being retired I still have range privileges, so tomorrow I'm off to shoot up as much of the departments ammo as I can. In reality retirees are allowed to shoot on open range days. It's nice to see some of the old fellows and meet the new guys as well. Good times.

[Uhhlexxxis]

Not exactly free, but paid by the state for training every month. I don't think we train enough with our pistols to be honest. Should be bi-monthly. We shoot the same ammo we use in our duty pistols.. I take little of it home for my .40 XD.

Simunitions (only had it at the academy) could potentially be cheaper and the training from it is potentially more valuable.

[Trigger Finger]

The liability thing is, I think, causing a lot of agencies a lot of heartburn in our modern age.

FWIW, the late Jim Cirillo (NYPD Ret) was at one point one of the pre-eminent experts on police gun fighting if for no other reason than he was in so many (17 all together) during five years on the Stakeout Unit. His books and articles from over the years are still very relevant and I recommend them for the library of any LEO who is interested in surviving an armed encounter.

Cirillo let it be known after he had retired that he usually armed himself with non-issue JHP ammo because the 158 grain RNL that was NYPD issue was ridiculously anemic. Can't imagine how loudly lawyers and risk managers would squeak these days if LEOs were doing that regularly.

I am retired from a large department on the west coast and my department does not regulate or monitor what type of ammo I carry. It would be a monumental task and after retirement the department shoulders no burden if you are involved in a bad shooting regardless of ammo. It's hard to imagine NYPD with over four times more sworn officers than I retired from would require you to carry certain ammunition after you honorably retire. And my department would change the authorized ammo and weapons once in a great while, what would they do send out a notice to all retirees to make certain they are now carrying the current authorized ammo? I don't think so. I seem to recall that Cirillo said he carried better ammo when he was on duty in the Stakeout Unit prior to retirement. My point is that most retirees carry non-issue types of ammunition and non-authorized weapons. This is perfectly legal and has caused no problem to the retired officer that I am aware of.

Bigdog, in re reading your post I might have misunderstood. Yes, if you are using non-authorized ammo on duty and involved in a shooting it could be a liability issue. But probably a policy issue with internal discipline.

[oddjob]

I'm retired as well and my old dept simply recommends us retirees to carry the dept issue ammo. We (retired old folks) can get ammo pretty much when we want. Just gotta drive to the office (which I don't want to do). Any ways I carry the dept ammo to negate any questions if I shoot someone. My old dept issues pretty good ammo so I have no problems with it. The dept also keeps records of when we shoot, serial # of the weapon(s), course of fire & etc. Its good for liability issues that may pop up for retirees and the dept. The dept also issues .380, 9mm, .40, .45acp, .38 special, .223 & 12g ammo for everyone. No other calibers are authorized for anyone....on duty, off duty or retirees. Obviously .223 & 12g are not carried by retirees. My old dept encourages people to shoot (practice) off duty with dept ammo. My old chief actually has a Swenson tuned .45acp!! How is that for a shooter.

[slowjonn]

I'm pretty sure what BigDog was quoting from Cirillo was that Cirrilo was carrying the unauthorized ammo WHILE he was still employed by NYPD, not what he was carrying in retirement. He only divuldged this info AFTER he retired.

Thats what I got out of it reading Cirillo's writings.

[Average Joe American]

Las Vegas Metro PD gives out handgun ammo like candy at the range for free to officers. At least they did when our guys went there.

[fullrearview]

I use .22lr in my usp 40 for duty ammo.....

[BigDogatPlay]

I'm pretty sure what BigDog was quoting from Cirillo was that Cirrilo was carrying the unauthorized ammo WHILE he was still employed by NYPD, not what he was carrying in retirement. He only divuldged this info AFTER he retired.

Thats what I got out of it reading Cirillo's writings.

Correct... and it's what I got from reading Cirillo in depth as well. He carried non approved ammo while assigned to the Stakeout Unit because the issue ammo at the time was not a reliable fight stopper. He gave himself up, in essence, after he retired.

[bjl333]

I really think Depts should give officers all the ammo they need AT the police range. Our peace officers needs to be better then 90% of all shooters. I emphisize shooters because 90% of the average citizen isn't saying much. Unforturnately I don't think officers practice enough. I had a client that is a Lt. at a pretty good sized local PD, and she basically just shoot to qualify. I invited her to go shoot with me but her knowledge of firearms isn't much more then the average person on the streets.

[darksands]

I would hope non of you guys run out of duty ammo anytime soon.

Stay safe out there.

[bjl333]

I would hope non of you guys run out of duty ammo anytime soon.

Stay safe out there.

Ditto !!

[fegves2id]

My department has "open range" days, during which any officer can show up and blaze through as many rounds as they please. If the department is short on ammunition, or funding, this is sometimes restricted. I usually go and shoot ALOT of rounds. I do bullseye, moving and shooting, and reload drills typically. I usually have free run of the range, with no distractions.

The amazing thing is, I am usually the only officer at the range shooting......The range masters routinely report that only 1 or 2 officers showed up during the entire 8 or 10 hour open range session. It is good in a way, because that means more ammunition for me, and quick access to any yard line of the range. It's bad, because I know my beat partner's shooting skills are not up to par.

[ARtistinCA]

Yea it sound slike it depends where you'r eworkign and the economic times of the dept. When I worked for a large S.O. in the east bay the range master would give amo to the shooters... maybe 100 rounds a month.

My current department with the way the city budget is .... there's no ammo. We qualify bi-monthly with sidearm and rifle or shotgun. We may shoot 50 rounds in quals with sidearm. Twice a year we qual. with offduty/backups. If your backup/off duty is the same caliber as our duty weapons (9mmP/.38-.357/40/45) they issue us ammo for it. If its not (I used to carry a 10mm and some carry .380s) you have to purchase dept. authorized ammo (usually its the same manufacturer as the duty ammo).

If youre lucky enough to reload, the chief has authorized officers to purchase brass at a penny a brass case. A 30 cal ammo box of brass costs me about $10.