Article on LASD M&P 9 accidental discharges

[SVT-40]

What you have hear is deputies who were trained in the academy 4-5 years ago with the beretta, worked the jails unarmed and are now on the street with a new weapon they are not trained in.

Actually, what you have here is someone who has no idea how LASD trains their deputies, and makes assumptions based on nothing more than what they read on the internet...



Since you claim to have "15 years in law enforcement", what are the requirements for your agency when switching from one weapon to another?

Being "in law enforcement" ... as what? there are many positions "in" law enforcement which are not in enforcement, and are not sworn...

What is you position? because it appears you really don't have a good grasp regarding issues related to sworn officers....

[camaroguy2012]

Actually, what you have here is someone who has no idea how LASD trains their deputies, and makes assumptions based on nothing more than what they read on the internet...



Since you claim to have "15 years in law enforcement", what are the requirements for your agency when switching from one weapon to another?

Being "in law enforcement" ... as what? there are many positions "in" law enforcement which are not in enforcement, and are not sworn...

What is you position? because it appears you really don't have a good grasp regarding issues related to sworn officers....

Boy you lasd boys sure do get butthurt real easy. You decide whatever you want bro, but your blue falcon attitude is exactly why i am glad im retired and no longer in uniform. I know a lot about lasd and not from the internet but im sure you would rather believe that an alien being took possession of the deputies and made them have twice as many NDs. Not like you guys are getting federally indicted...oh wait....

And if my rationale is wrong then please provide any other explanation for all the NDs, im listening oh illustrious deputy

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I have already stated clearly that AD/ND's are the sole fault of the operator. You are now just trying to throw a red herring into the argument by asserting I said something other than that. You said the department was sending people out into the field with out training on the weapon, remember?

I will leave it to SVT to correct you on the rest of the garbage you just posted.

[micro911]

Sure LASD has its share of "accidental discharges."

They are addressing the issue now, and maybe we will see less ADs in the future. No one needs to talk bad about another agency or another LEO.

They will be authorizing 1911 type pistols also. Hope no accidental discharges with that pistol system.

[camaroguy2012]

I have already stated clearly that AD/ND's are the sole fault of the operator. You are now just trying to throw a red herring into the argument by asserting I said something other than that. You said the department was sending people out into the field with out training on the weapon, remember?

I will leave it to SVT to correct you on the rest of the garbage you just posted.

No i didnt say that you made an assumption and are putting words into my mouth, i said deputies who went thru the academy before the transition were trained on beretta 92 and were then spending 4 to 5 years unarmed in the jail and then transitioned to the mp9 a new weapons system, i didnt say anything about the training they received with mp9 but chances are it was 2 or 3 days on the range and a qual right? So now they begin carrying a weapon system different then what they carried in the academy and probably carried off duty and are now carrying an MP9, so it very well could account for the rising number of ADs/NDs and you have provided nothing to disprove me other then say im wrong.... i guess ill just take your admission then that its a bunch of slaps becoming deputies since you yourself stated an ND was operator error only. So if its not the training as you claim then the only logical explaination per your words is that there are more idiots working LASD then other departments. Anything else chief?

[Bobby Ricigliano]

No i didnt say that you made an assumption and are putting words into my mouth, i said deputies who went thru the academy before the transition were trained on beretta 92 and were then spending 4 to 5 years unarmed in the jail and then transitioned to the mp9 a new weapons system, i didnt say anything about the training they received with mp9 but chances are it was 2 or 3 days on the range and a qual right? So now they begin carrying a weapon system different then what they carried in the academy and probably carried off duty and are now carrying an MP9, so it very well could account for the rising number of ADs/NDs and you have provided nothing to disprove me other then say im wrong.... i guess ill just take your admission then that its a bunch of slaps becoming deputies since you yourself stated an ND was operator error only. So if its not the training as you claim then the only logical explaination per your words is that there are more idiots working LASD then other departments. Anything else chief?

I said it was operator error, a violation of the basic rules of gun handling that apply to all firearms. There is no issue with the department's training, and there is no issue with the safety or mechanics of the weapon. All of the name calling, cartoons, and juvenile insults were provided by you, now conveniently "retired" of course.

[camaroguy2012]

I said it was operator error, a violation of the basic rules of gun handling that apply to all firearms. There is no issue with the department's training, and there is no issue with the safety or mechanics of the weapon. All of the name calling, cartoons, and juvenile insults were provided by you, now conveniently "retired" of course.

Thanks again for proving my point that you in fact have no point...

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Thanks again for proving my point that you in fact have no point...

My point was that you posted assertions about that which you know nothing about. When challenged, you responded with cartoons and juvenile name calling. Then you elevated it to generalized slurs of the LASD and "indictment" business which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Rather unbecoming actually, for someone who supposedly has had some sort of actual LEO affiliation at some point.

I wish you well in your retirement. This exchange has grown tiresome and I am surprised a Mod hasn't locked it yet. You may be able to squeeze in another funny cartoon before they do. Good night.

[KD714]

[KD714]

Boy you lasd boys sure do get butthurt real easy. You decide whatever you want bro, but your blue falcon attitude is exactly why i am glad im retired and no longer in uniform. I know a lot about lasd and not from the internet but im sure you would rather believe that an alien being took possession of the deputies and made them have twice as many NDs. Not like you guys are getting federally indicted...oh wait....

And if my rationale is wrong then please provide any other explanation for all the NDs, im listening oh illustrious deputy

I have no idea what logic is being used here when you talk crap about somebody's department and fellow deputies then are shocked when they step up and defend them.
That's not being butthurt, its having pride in your department and brothers in arms.

If you actually spent time in uniform and were out there in the field you would understand it.


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[camaroguy2012]

I have no idea what logic is being used here when you talk crap about somebody's department and fellow deputies then are shocked when they step up and defend them.
That's not being butthurt, its having pride in your department and brothers in arms.

If you actually spent time in uniform and were out there in the field you would understand it.


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Maybe you should re read the thread and see who attached who first? There was no name calling by me at all and i merely said they trained on beretta then transitioned to the MP9, i never stated they simply handed it to them and said here you go, you and all the other butthurt deputies simply assumed that and started talking **** to me and questioning whether id ever even worked leo, seemes to me you guys are the ones name calling. No one else has posted anything else in any way shape or form then to say its all user error. Awesome...

[camaroguy2012]

My point was that you posted assertions about that which you know nothing about. When challenged, you responded with cartoons and juvenile name calling. Then you elevated it to generalized slurs of the LASD and "indictment" business which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Rather unbecoming actually, for someone who supposedly has had some sort of actual LEO affiliation at some point.

I wish you well in your retirement. This exchange has grown tiresome and I am surprised a Mod hasn't locked it yet. You may be able to squeeze in another funny cartoon before they do. Good night.

And you assumed i know nothing about it and when i challenged you to post ANY kind of rational explenation for it all you did was state ive never worked in LE. Right im the one attaching lmao so many blue falcons these days

[KD714]

Maybe you should re read the thread and see who attached who first? There was no name calling by me at all and i merely said they trained on beretta then transitioned to the MP9, i never stated they simply handed it to them and said here you go, you and all the other butthurt deputies simply assumed that and started talking **** to me and questioning whether id ever even worked leo, seemes to me you guys are the ones name calling. No one else has posted anything else in any way shape or form then to say its all user error. Awesome...

Let's take it from the top Camaroguy.

If you actually read my post, I never claimed that you did any name-calling. But you did talk crap about the sheriffs department and it's deputies.

Originally you did state that they were just handing them out. See below

What you have hear is deputies who were trained in the academy 4-5 years ago with the beretta, worked the jails unarmed and are now on the street with a new weapon they are not trained in.

You are assuming that I am a deputy and I am not. I prefer to have my uniform match... [emoji16]

I cannot speak for everybody else however the reason I feel that you may not have been LEO is because of some of the comments that you made. It just doesn't sound like how a seasoned officer with 15 years of field experience would speak. If I am wrong and you were an actual police officer out there pushing a black-and-white my bad. However let's be clear our questioning whether you were actually a police officer or not does not constitute name-calling. I think you may be reading these posts in a tone of voice in which you think you're being attacked.

And finally I never claimed that the ND's are anything but operator error. Barring some sort of equipment malfunction I believe that every single one of those incidents are a result of operator error. That is why I have never called it an AD.

However I am absolutely confident that the LASD is on top of it and he's taking care of the issue as we speak.




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[camaroguy2012]

KD, i actually didnt talk any crap at all, and trying to call me out and saying I am not an LEO is in fact an attack. In fact saying all LEOs think exactly alike, as your comment about me not commenting like a seasoned officer implies, shows me you probably dont have that many years under your belt. I know what the transition is for departments, and to be fair, i didnt mean to say they were sending them out with an untrained firearm, i ment to say an unfamiliar firearm. As 2 or 3 days on the range and a monthly qual is not the same as carrying the same weapon every day while in the academy. I have worked with many cops who had never shot a firearm prior to the academy. Not every cop is a gun nut. Me personally I love guns and ive carried everything from a beretta to glock to a p226. Now while the lasd is a huge agency and it is very difficult to try and account for every deputy to be familiar with a new weapon system in 2 or 3 days. They simply dont have the man power to accomdate something like that, and even the stat, 30 out of 1xxxx deputies is trivial, thats on par with saying the xxxxx amount of firearm deaths has anything to do with the 250m + gun owners. I am merely trying to say that the transition training for deputies might not be enough when they were academy trained on the beretta, then went to the jails for X years and now are expected to carry a new weapon on patrol. That MIGHT account for the extra NDs that have occurred. I never stated it was a fact

[SVT-40]

What you have hear is deputies who were trained in the academy 4-5 years ago with the beretta, worked the jails unarmed and are now on the street with a new weapon they are not trained in.

I was around, and went to the LASD academy when deputies were issues .38 caliber revolvers....

The had the same change over issues when they switched form revolvers to Beretta's

You do realize that custody deputies have the exact same qualification requirements as patrol deputies???

Just because they work a custody assignment does not mean they don't practice and qualify with their duty Beretta's. In fact many custody deputies carry their Beretta's off duty....

The same applies to the S&W M&P...

Does it matter? Clearly something has occured for the # of AD, i am merely pointing out an obvious answer for it, whether it is accurate for all or not i dont know, thats why its hypothetical, i personally dont go around blaming the gun for ADs,

Either that or the only other explanation is the LASD deputies are poorly trained as i never heard of this problem when LAPD switched to glock

At least you admit you really "don't know" why a few deputies have had AD's....

LAPD has not totally switched to Glock handguns by the way.....

Boy you lasd boys sure do get butthurt real easy. You decide whatever you want bro, but your blue falcon attitude is exactly why i am glad im retired and no longer in uniform. I know a lot about lasd and not from the internet but im sure you would rather believe that an alien being took possession of the deputies and made them have twice as many NDs. Not like you guys are getting federally indicted...oh wait....

And if my rationale is wrong then please provide any other explanation for all the NDs, im listening oh illustrious deputy

I did not work for LASD... I was trained by them and graduated from their academy. I worked with many deputies over my 29 years including three years on a task force led by LASD... Trained with LASD SEB...Shot with them on many many occasions.

My interactions with them were always positive, and I always looked forward to weapons training with them...

"Blue falcon"... I like that!!!

You may think you "know a lot" about LASD... And they have had their problems... But any agency that large in any metropolitan area will always have issues...

But for you to link those issues to a weapons handing issue is juvenile.

Your mistake it your belief about the reasons for the AD's

Any time any agency transitions from one weapon to another there will always be some issues...

It's just a matter of people. A certain very small number people will always make mistakes when handling new equipment...

Regardless of the number of hours of training or rounds fired. Some will always make mistakes...

Guns are tools nothing more... Just like a carpenters circular saw.

If you don't pay the tool it's proper respect due to complacency it will come back to bite you regardless of what agency you work for....