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2018/2019 AMMO LAW THREAD - ask here, not a new thread

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  • mrdd
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 2023

    California Penal Code

    30342.

    (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a valid ammunition vendor license shall be required for any person, firm, corporation, or other business enterprise to sell more than 500 rounds of ammunition in any 30-day period.

    (b) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

    30312.to any of the following:

    (6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

    Comment

    • Quiet
      retired Goon
      • Mar 2007
      • 30241

      Originally posted by Fire4Effect
      A holder of a FFL 03 C&R license and a COE tells me I can sell him ammo face to face if I hold a FFL 03 C&R license and COE. Is this true?
      Unless you are licensed as a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer, you can only sell up to a total of 500 rounds every 30 days. [PC 30342(a)]

      You can sell to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE without having it transferred through a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer. [PC 30312(c)(6)]

      Therefore...
      As long as you do not sell more than 500 rounds within a 30 day period, you can legally sell, via face-to-face cash & carry type transfer, to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE.
      sigpic

      "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

      Comment

      • Fire4Effect
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2009
        • 598

        Originally posted by Quiet
        Unless you are licensed as a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer, you can only sell up to a total of 500 rounds every 30 days. [PC 30342(a)]

        You can sell to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE without having it transferred through a CA licensed ammunition vendor or CA FFL dealer. [PC 30312(c)(6)]

        Therefore...
        As long as you do not sell more than 500 rounds within a 30 day period, you can legally sell, via face-to-face cash & carry type transfer, to a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE.
        Thank you. So I would need to see a copy of his valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE to complete the face to face transfer.

        Comment

        • Dvrjon
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Nov 2012
          • 11220

          Originally posted by mattyb23
          So is there any legal way for this ammo to be brought over in my situation?
          No, not without a bunch of really sketchy activity and effort.
          Originally posted by mattyb23
          My grandmother was visiting in Wisconsin, I found a shop over there with ammo in stock and got about $600 in ammo which I paid for over the phone. She has a sister in Wyoming, but that doesn't count as immediate family right? Crazy to me that your siblings don't count.

          She will be driving back this week. It said for first offense it's an infraction right? Do they confiscate the ammo if they happen to find it?

          Can I put a shipping label on the package so it would now be mail they can't open? Lol. Any advice would be great.
          Who is where and going to do what?

          You purchased ammo by phone from a Wisconsin vendor and your grandmother picked up your ammunition. Your grandmother is a CA resident and is transporting your ammunition back to CA for you. Is that it?

          (No clue as to what a great aunt in Wyoming has to do with this. If you’re contemplating a story of grandma got the ammo from her sister, that won’t work and will have them both in jeopardy.)

          -First offense is an infraction, but, if your grandmother talks to the cops, you and she could be looked at for conspiracy. That’s more than an infraction.
          -They’ll keep the contraband...wouldn’t make much sense to let the shipment through, would it?
          -“Mail” isn’t protected until it is in the possession of USPS....but you can’t mail ammo through the USPS. UPS/FedEx shipments aren’t federally protected.

          The nature of your question indicates you know having grandma mule the stuff in for you puts her at risk.

          -Meet grandma across the state line. Have her buy the ammo from you...then give it to you as a gift (include a gift card). Then, you can bring it in under the exemption. But, that’s still pretty sketchy, and opens the door to conspiracy, fraud, etc.

          -Take a friend with an FFL-03 + COE with you to meet grandma. The friend can bring the ammo in after he buys it from you/grams. Transfer from them to you within the state is a separate issue, but grandma’s out of the equation.
          Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-01-2020, 12:39 PM.

          Comment

          • 97F1504RAD
            Calguns Addict
            • Dec 2008
            • 6315

            So let me get this straight, you just joined this forum and this is your first post and you want us to tell you how to break the law. Nice.

            Comment

            • Dvrjon
              CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
              CGN Contributor - Lifetime
              • Nov 2012
              • 11220

              Originally posted by Fire4Effect
              Thank you. So I would need to see a copy of his valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE to complete the face to face transfer.
              An ID matching those docs would be prudent. Make copies.

              Comment

              • Dvrjon
                CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Nov 2012
                • 11220

                Originally posted by 97F1504RAD
                So let me get this straight, you just joined this forum and this is your first post and you want us to tell you how to break the law. Nice.
                Or, get grandma bagged....

                Comment

                • swilson
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 732

                  I haven't bought ammo since before the law went into effect and am looking at the flowchart trying to understand everything. I'm thinking COE is the right way to go. I have some questions:

                  Is there any downside to getting the COE? Like record keeping or whatever?

                  I only have a "federal limits apply" drivers license and my passport is expired. I may be able to find my marriage license somewhere. What ID do I need to get a COE and/or buy ammo?

                  I was livescanned before when I applied for my contractor's license, in 2011. Does that count for anything?

                  Is it true that you can't buy ammo for firearms that you haven't purchased?

                  Comment

                  • Librarian
                    Admin and Poltergeist
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 44625

                    Originally posted by swilson
                    I haven't bought ammo since before the law went into effect and am looking at the flowchart trying to understand everything. I'm thinking COE is the right way to go. I have some questions:

                    1 - Is there any downside to getting the COE? Like record keeping or whatever?

                    2 - I only have a "federal limits apply" drivers license and my passport is expired. I may be able to find my marriage license somewhere. What ID do I need to get a COE and/or buy ammo?

                    3 - I was livescanned before when I applied for my contractor's license, in 2011. Does that count for anything?

                    4 - Is it true that you can't buy ammo for firearms that you haven't purchased?
                    1 - don't know, but don't think so

                    2 - ID for ammo is the same as for buying a gun - easy ones:
                    3 - no, have to do it again if you need prints for something now.

                    4 - not true. Current address in AFS is the $1 check.
                    ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

                    Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

                    Comment

                    • Dvrjon
                      CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 11220

                      Originally posted by swilson
                      I haven't bought ammo since before the law went into effect and am looking at the flowchart trying to understand everything. I'm thinking COE is the right way to go. I have some questions:

                      Is there any downside to getting the COE? Like record keeping or whatever? No.

                      I only have a "federal limits apply" drivers license and my passport is expired. I may be able to find my marriage license somewhere. What ID do I need to get a COE and/or buy ammo? 11 CCR 4045.1

                      I was livescanned before when I applied for my contractor's license, in 2011. Does that count for anything? No.

                      Is it true that you can't buy ammo for firearms that you haven't purchased? No.
                      You also need an FFL-03 if you want to buy online and have it delivered to your home.

                      ETA: Broke away for Family stuff; Librarian strikes first.
                      Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-02-2020, 3:18 PM.

                      Comment

                      • swilson
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 732

                        Originally posted by Librarian
                        1 - don't know, but don't think so

                        2 - ID for ammo is the same as for buying a gun -

                        easy ones:
                        3 - no, have to do it again if you need prints for something now.

                        4 - not true. Current address in AFS is the $1 check.
                        Thank you. A couple more questions:

                        1. Just double checking, a COE is fine for just average people? I'm not a dealer or vendor or manufacturer or anything, I'm just a regular citizen looking to streamline the ammo buying process.

                        2. If I do get the COE what other forms of ID do I need to purchase a gun/ammo? It's been a while since I bought a gun and my passport expired, I don't have a Real ID and I'm looking into getting a copy of my birth certificate from out of state.

                        Comment

                        • Dvrjon
                          CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 11220

                          Originally posted by swilson
                          Thank you. A couple more questions:

                          1. Just double checking, a COE is fine for just average people? I'm not a dealer or vendor or manufacturer or anything, I'm just a regular citizen looking to streamline the ammo buying process.
                          Yes. However, it doesn’t really make sense to get a COE simply to purchase ammunition in this state. A COE requires a LiveScan background check which will run around $100. Then, you have to submit the application along with various ID documents. These were listed in the quote from Librarian and are in the regulation to which I linked. Here’s the process for COE. Here are the regulations covering the COE. A COE must be renewed every year ($22).

                          You need these same documents for a RealID, but it won’t cost $100+ And the license is good for years.

                          Originally posted by swilson
                          2. If I do get the COE what other forms of ID do I need to purchase a gun/ammo? It's been a while since I bought a gun and my passport expired, I don't have a Real ID and I'm looking into getting a copy of my birth certificate from out of state.
                          These are detailed in the above posts citing the regulations. 11 CCR 4045.1 states, “This section applies to all firearms and ammunition eligibility checks, including any eligibility check described in Division 5,....”. (Division 5 refers to COEs and other matters).

                          provides the COE Verification Process.
                          (a) A purchaser or transferee is authorized to purchase ammunition if they hold a current Certificate of Eligibility, subsequent to verification by the Department.
                          (1) A purchaser or transferee may request, through an ammunition vendor, that the Department conduct a COE Verification to determine if the purchaser or transferee qualifies for this authorization.
                          (b) As authorized by Penal Code section 30370, subdivision (e), the fee for COE Verification is $1.00.
                          (c) The ammunition vendor shall collect the ammunition purchaser's or transferee's name, date of birth, current address, and driver's license or other government identification number in the manner described in Penal Code section 28180, telephone number, and COE number, and enter the information into the DES website.
                          (d) Upon the Department's completion of the COE Verification, the Department shall update the purchaser's or transferee's DES record to instruct the ammunition vendor to approve or reject the ammunition purchase or transfer.
                          Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-03-2020, 7:33 AM.

                          Comment

                          • 1SDGunMan
                            Junior Member
                            • Mar 2020
                            • 37

                            Am I allowed to ship ammo out of state without any restrictions?

                            Comment

                            • Dvrjon
                              CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                              CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 11220

                              Originally posted by 1SDGunMan
                              Am I allowed to ship ammo out of state without any restrictions?
                              The statute prohibits a resident from bringing ammunition into the state.

                              Comment

                              • Mustang
                                Veteran Member
                                • Aug 2007
                                • 4976

                                Originally posted by Dvrjon
                                The statute prohibits a resident from bringing ammunition into the state.
                                I believe the question is whether it is legal for a California resident to sell and ship ammo to an out-of-state resident
                                ...a fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place...

                                Comment

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