2018/2019 AMMO LAW THREAD - ask here, not a new thread

[Sleepy1988]

I bought a box of .357 magnum ammunition yesterday at Big 5 and it took about 15 minutes to match my information with the information in the AFS. Would it take less time if I had a COE?

[97F1504RAD]

I bought a box of .357 magnum ammunition yesterday at Big 5 and it took about 15 minutes to match my information with the information in the AFS. Would it take less time if I had a COE?

If you are going to do that then you might as well also get the 03FFL then you can have ammo shipped to your door.

[Sleepy1988]

If you are going to do that then you might as well also get the 03FFL then you can have ammo shipped to your door.

[97F1504RAD]

[Dvrjon]

If I only got the COE though would it speed the process up in stores so I wouldn’t have to wait as long to buy ammo?

No. All the COE does is bypass the AFS bump of your data. The vendor still needs to input all of your data and the COE number, wait for a response, then log your purchases. You still have to stand in line waiting to be served, etc.

As 97F1504RAD pointed out, you’re going to spring over $100 for the COE and $22 for annual renewals.

$30 more gets you a 3-year FFL03, and you don’t have to stand in line at the store.

[Sleepy1988]

Thanks for the answer.

[sfe187]

COE is $71 + LiveScan.
LiveScan depending where you go can cost anywhere from $15 to $50.

So if you play your cards right you can have COE totally completed under $100 and 03 is $30 flat for 3 years.

[Yugo]

Gifting Ammo?

can someone gift me a box of 50rds of ammo without an FFL?

[Kate]

Crud! I was sure I knew the answer (No) until I read the post Garv linked to. Now I am not sure.

The PC in section (a)(1) says, "the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor." So that concerns only SALES.

Then (a)(2) says, "When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor,..." So, that section also has to do with a SALE, not a gift.

Then section (b) says, "the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section"

Which says that if I GIVE the ammo to a person F2F, and it is not a remote/Internet sale, I am OK.

So, in reading it, I would have naively said, that I CAN gift ammo to a person as long as I do it in person.

Which does not sound like what I was thinking it was going to be.

So my apologies for the stupid question, but... Can I gift ammo F2F legally?

If not, is it because "sale" includes zero dollar transfers or some such silliness?

Katie

[Kate]

OK. I totally get that. I have had a friend recently tell me they are afraid with recent happenings. I responded with suggesting a felonious act, which was not accepted...

But would such a gift be LEGAL?

Katie

[Kate]

On legal matters I am not the correct person to advise. I am sorry that I am not more helpful...but I know that some other folks will likely be along with sound advise...

Librarian or some of the other seasoned mods/members are whom I would pay attention to.

Thank you, Tarmy!

A very wise person said to me about this topic:

I think there are two separate questions embedded in your query.

1) What is legal based on how the law is written?
2) What is legal based on how the law will be interpreted by whomever is judging your case?

It might be useful to consider the difference.

Perhaps that is the real answer. Unless you want to be the test case, act conservatively.

And I should offer my apologies to the OP for me thinking it was a simple, straight forward answer. Clearly it wasn't...

Katie

[Librarian]

can someone gift me a box of 50rds of ammo without an FFL?

OK, this post and relevant replies have been merged into the ammo law thread - you know, the one that has "ask here, not a new thread" in the title.

12 posts out of that thread have been deleted - the "How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me" forum is not OT, and replies are supposed to be about actually helping folks understand how to obey the laws.

PC 30312(c)(9) and (c)(10) seem to be the only useful exemption:

(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction.
...
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:
...
(9) A person who purchases or receives ammunition at a target facility holding a business or other regulatory license, provided that the ammunition is at all times kept within the facility’s premises.

(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
...

(9) says anyone can give you ammo at a range, so long as it stays there.
(10) says those listed kinds of people can give you ammo anywhere.

(Similar exemption to (10), above, for 'import/transfer at Ammo Vendor' at 30314(b)(6))

No quantity limit listed.

I believe the confusion comes from the existence of Prop 63 and a bill that passed; the bill had language that Prop 63 over-wrote.

SB1235 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01520160SB1235 - passed, and was subsequently modified by Prop 63 (This is the category example of why one must look at the official site for laws rather than the bills that added the law to the code.)

1235 did have a 50-round transfer provision, at 30367 - current law does not have a section 30367.

So, so far as I can tell - and with the mess of this law, I think it would be easy to miss - the answer to the original question is 'no' as a general case.

[Yugo]

OK, this post and relevant replies have been merged into the ammo law thread - you know, the one that has "ask here, not a new thread" in the title.

12 posts out of that thread have been deleted - the "How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me" forum is not OT, and replies are supposed to be about actually helping folks understand how to obey the laws.

PC 30312(c)(9) and (c)(10) seem to be the only useful exemption:
(9) says anyone can give you ammo at a range, so long as it stays there.
(10) says those listed kinds of people can give you ammo anywhere.

(Similar exemption to (10), above, for 'import/transfer at Ammo Vendor' at 30314(b)(6))

No quantity limit listed.

I believe the confusion comes from the existence of Prop 63 and a bill that passed; the bill had language that Prop 63 over-wrote.

SB1235 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01520160SB1235 - passed, and was subsequently modified by Prop 63 (This is the category example of why one must look at the official site for laws rather than the bills that added the law to the code.)

1235 did have a 50-round transfer provision, at 30367 - current law does not have a section 30367.

So, so far as I can tell - and with the mess of this law, I think it would be easy to miss - the answer to the original question is 'no' as a general case.

thank you. that answers it.

[Fire4Effect]

A holder of a FFL 03 C&R license and a COE tells me I can sell him ammo face to face if I hold a FFL 03 C&R license and COE. Is this true?

[mrdd]

A holder of a FFL 03 C&R license and a COE tells me I can sell him ammo face to face if I hold a FFL 03 C&R license and COE. Is this true?

False.

A C&R and COE only applies as an exception to a transferee, it does not apply to a transferor.

The only exception which applies to a transferor applies to any person or entity, whereby you can sell up to 500 rounds in any 30 day period without needing an ammunition vendor license.