80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

[ifilef]

AW for registration purposes vs. new definition of AW eff. 1/1/2017

After all this time a lot of people have still not comprehended the definition
of an AW as used here in CA.

That's because the registration statute's (amended PC 30900(b)(1) definition mandating registration differs from amended 30515.

As to the former, if one ever possessed it with a BB during the applicable period it is considered an AW, no matter what you later do to it. IOW, current configuration is not relevant for purposes of that statute.

With the latter, current configuration is relevant.

So, one should understand the distinguishing characteristics of each statute.

30900(b)(1) applies retrospectively during the applicable period from 2001 to 2016, whereas 30515 applies prospectively from 1/1/2017 forward.

[ifilef]

So you are implying if you had a BB equipped rifle and convert it to a featureless rifle before Jan 1 2017, it will still need to be registered?

Yes.

Also not answered, if you have a BB rifle, register it, since it is now classified as an AW, is there any reason to retain the BB once it is registered?

Remains to be seen, but standard mag release probably ok provided that you first register as AW. That was the opinion given in the CRPA webinar, also.

I would feel fine shooting with BB next year without registering as AW (but do register it as AW by 12/31/2017), yet would feel mighty uncomfortable shooting with a standard magazine release and an unregistered AW...could very likely lead to a felony arrest.

Why?

Because shooting with a standard mag release with a SACF featured weapon is presently unlawful, while presently shooting with a BB IS lawful, which makes it a firearm eligible to be registered under the new statute. So, given the grace period, it would apply to BB weapons but not to ones with a standard magazine release.

[Junkie]

So you are implying if you had a BB equipped rifle and convert it to a featureless rifle before Jan 1 2017, it will still need to be registered?

Also not answered, if you have a BB rifle, register it, since it is now classified as an AW, is there any reason to retain the BB once it is registered?

That's because the registration statute's (amended PC 30900(b)(1) definition mandating registration differs from amended 30515.

As to the former, if one ever possessed it with a BB during the applicable period it is considered an AW, no matter what you later do to it. IOW, current configuration is not relevant for purposes of that statute.

With the latter, current configuration is relevant.

So, one should understand the distinguishing characteristics of each statute.

30900(b)(1) applies retrospectively during the applicable period from 2001 to 2016, whereas 30515 applies prospectively from 1/1/2017 forward.

He leaves out the fact that the statute doesn't say anything about current possession, or ownership at any point, either. It says that if you ever lawfully possessed it, you must register it. It doesn't have any exceptions to that.

Do I really think they want you to register guns that you don't own (or never owned)? No. But ifilef claims his interpretation of the law is the right one, even though it requires assuming they don't mean exactly what they say. 90% of people here seem to think that if it's no longer featured/BB'd that you don't need to register it, which also requires assuming they don't mean exactly what they say. ifilef hasn't given a good explanation for why his interpretation of what part of the law isn't what they mean is the right one.

Yes.



Remains to be seen, but standard mag release probably ok provided that you first register as AW. That was the opinion given in the CRPA webinar, also.

I would feel fine shooting with BB next year without registering as AW (but do register it as AW by 12/31/2017), yet would feel mighty uncomfortable shooting with a standard magazine release and an unregistered AW...could very likely lead to a felony arrest.

Why?

Because shooting with a standard mag release with a SACF featured weapon is presently unlawful, while presently shooting with a BB IS lawful, which makes it a firearm eligible to be registered under the new statute. So, given the grace period, it would apply to BB weapons but not to ones with a standard magazine release.

Starting 1/1/17 it's an AW if it's featured/BB'd. There's no law prohibiting making an AW more assaulty (as long as you don't break other laws). There's no prosecution allowed next year for possession of an AW if you possessed it ahead of time.

[BAN-ONE]

Registering 80% AR Rifle build as AW?

I have a few AR-15 rifles that I have built from 80% lowers that I intend to register as assault weapons come next year. They are currently configured with bullet buttons. I do not wish to go the featureless route at this time for most of them (I will have one set up featureless). My understanding is that before January 1st, 2017 I should have them engraved as per ATF guidelines in order to have a manufacturer, model, and serial number. My question is this: For the registration form how will I specify how I acquired the weapon? Will there be an option to specify that the firearm was homebuilt, and if so how will I prove that the firearm was built prior to 2017? Will I be using my name as manufacturer and the serial number I make up on the AW registration forms? Any advice would be appreciated.

[Junkie]

I didn't think they had to be engraved before the end of the year, but I guess if they aren't it's difficult to show that they were AWs in time.

I'm not sure how you'd prove it, that's a concern I have as well. Even if you do a VolReg that doesn't prove that the gun exists.

[suregrip413]

finally found what I was looking for

[tokyodrftr]

80% lower with maglock. Serial #?

I found an engraving shop that will mark all my 80% lowers. The 80s are all AR pistols with fixed mags. After marking, am I required to submit any paperwork cal DOJ? Or anybody?

I read through all the threads. I'm just double and triple checking for confirmation. I called cal DOJ but they didn't know yet and told me to call back


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[Quiet]

IAfter marking, am I required to submit any paperwork cal DOJ? Or anybody?

For now...
You are not required to report/register the firearms.

[tokyodrftr]

For now...

You are not required to report/register the firearms.

Thanks for confirming


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[tokyodrftr]

For now...

You are not required to report/register the firearms.

We do not need to pay the $19 and send in the ownership form?


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[RPC56]

80% lowers

I have a question for our more knowledgeable members. I apologize in advance if my questions have been asked and answered. Many times it is a lot of work to phrase the search to receive an answer that is viable. It is a multipart question.
So here goes, If I buy two 80% lowers for an AR-15 & AR-10 prior to Dec.31st, 2016 and use a Thordsen stocks for each, do I have to register them as an assault rifles, or are they considered a featureless rifle because they do not have a pistol grip? Am I under any obligation to the state to finish both of these rifles prior to Dec. 31st, 2016? Do I need to have a serial number on these rifles if I do all the work?
Thank you for any info you might shed on my questions.
All the best,
Ray

[MechaDad]

My kung-fu not so strong, but this should answer at least part of your question:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1225675

[Quiet]

So here goes, If I buy two 80% lowers for an AR-15 & AR-10 prior to Dec.31st, 2016 and use a Thordsen stocks for each, do I have to register them as an assault rifles, or are they considered a featureless rifle because they do not have a pistol grip?

If they are built without any restricted features, then they are not considered assault weapons and there is no requirement to register them as assault weapons during the 2017 registration time period.

Am I under any obligation to the state to finish both of these rifles prior to Dec. 31st, 2016?

If they are being built without any restricted features, then there is no requirement to build them before 2017.

If you intend to register them as assault weapons, then they need to be made before 01-01-2017.

Do I need to have a serial number on these rifles if I do all the work?

Not right now, but eventually they will need to be marked (before 2019).

If you mark them before 07-01-2018, then you can use your own information to do so and they do not have to be registered with CA DOJ.

After 06-30-2018, you will need to obtain CA DOJ approval and marking information to mark them. This process will register them with CA DOJ.

Starting 01-01-2019, it will be illegal to possess home made firearms without any marking information.

[RPC56]

Many thanks to MechaDad and Quiet, your time and effort to answer my questions is greatly appreciated.

[F8ality]

New laws and 80% builds

Can anyone please tell me how the new laws affect 80% builds?