Law Enforcement Influence on California Politics

[barrage]

No it really isn't. Just because a sheepdog has fangs doesn't mean he is a wolf. High drug addict breaking into your home and stealing your beloved gun and wife's jewels = wolf... Uniformed LEO arresting that individual for dope possession and putting him in jail before he steals from you = sheepdog.

Your logic seems pretty in line with the State. Make everyone a criminal and then they can be better controlled so as to prevent them from the possibility of actually causing harm to someone else down the road, especially if they're caught engaged in a non-State sanctioned activity.

Your example doesn't describe a sheepdog, either. It describes an automaton "doing his job" for a system that has no respect for the individual citizen and a complete disregard of the laws that govern this land.

[erik_26]

This is a stupid argument.

"Let's see what the most outlandish thing I can think of is, post that and try to make some BS comparison."

I disagree.

I find your argument just as ridiculous as you find mine.

I bet the first time someone mentioned murdering millions of Jews, people gasped and remarked how ridiculous and absurd that was.

I bet many people thought that would never happen. The soldiers would never follow that order.

The argument that LEOs are evil or bad because they enforce bad laws is dumb to begin with.

You only say that because you are tolerant and accepting of the current laws. You find them just tolerable enough to not physically revolt in the street. Sure, you dislike them. You help fight them in the legal system and help educate people.

You would stand behind any LEO making a lawful arrest even if you knew deep down it was wrong.

I wouldn't. I was taught to stand up for what is right.

When someone else challenges the law or expresses their opinion it becomes "dumb".

You don't have to agree and I am sure you wont.

LEOs do NOT make law or interpret law which is what that argument presumes to desire.

LEOs have unlawfully arrested good citizens and illegally confiscated private property. It does happen and it isn't all that rare.

Yes, people make mistake and LEOs are human. I get that. But when I make a mistake at work it doesn't cost people their life, time, money or freedom.

If I mistakenly break the law due to ignorance I am held fully accountable.

"he knows it's bad so he shouldn't enforce it!"
Fine, so you want each individual LEO to interpret the value and constitutionality of each law by their own perception.

Most of us probably have an overwhelming consensus as to what is morally right and wrong. Sure, there will be a few that are out of alignment.

There are several Sheriff's throughout the country that demonstrate integrity and stand with the people. They refuse to enforce unconstitutional laws even if it cost them their badge.

We don't see that in California and that is a shame.

Wait, you want that right up until an LEO's opinion or perception differs from yours, then you want to sue him for enforcing his view of the law not the law itself.

The legislature and the courts make and interpret the law not LEOs, unless you really want to see Judge Dredd play out on your street because that is what you're going to get if you leave interpretation of the law to LEOs.

Legislatures can never get it wrong? When they do we are all supposed to just follow along?

[wildhawker]

No it really isn't. Just because a sheepdog has fangs doesn't mean he is a wolf. High drug addict breaking into your home and stealing your beloved gun and wife's jewels = wolf... Uniformed LEO arresting that individual for dope possession and putting him in jail before he steals from you = sheepdog.

Uniformed LEOs arresting innocent gun owners and seizing their personal property = ???

Association of uniformed LEOs supporting unconstitutional (or possibly constitutional, but nevertheless bad) gun control laws = ???

Uniformed LEOs denying law-abiding people their right to keep and bear arms = ???

-Brandon

[RuskieShooter]

Uniformed LEOs arresting innocent gun owners and seizing their personal property = ???

Association of uniformed LEOs supporting unconstitutional (or possibly constitutional, but nevertheless bad) gun control laws = ???

Uniformed LEOs denying law-abiding people their right to keep and bear arms = ???

-Brandon

You forgot one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

-Ruskie

[SGTTOM]

Uniformed LEOs arresting innocent gun owners and seizing their personal property = ???

Association of uniformed LEOs supporting unconstitutional (or possibly constitutional, but nevertheless bad) gun control laws = ???

Uniformed LEOs denying law-abiding people their right to keep and bear arms = ???

-Brandon

Example please? When do LEO'S take guns from the innocent? I know I have found a loaded weapon in a good persons car when he crossed over from Arizona. He wasn't a drug addict and had no criminal history. I explained to him it would be a good idea to pull over and unload his weapon before crossing the state line. I unloaded it for him and let him place his weapon into his vehicle in a legal manner. I did not arrest him or take away his firearm. All my LEO buddies agreed I made the right choice. So again... give me an example of the the opposite being done. Had he been a drug addict of had a criminal record I would have handled it differently.

[SGTTOM]

Your logic seems pretty in line with the State. Make everyone a criminal and then they can be better controlled so as to prevent them from the possibility of actually causing harm to someone else down the road, especially if they're caught engaged in a non-State sanctioned activity.

Your example doesn't describe a sheepdog, either. It describes an automaton "doing his job" for a system that has no respect for the individual citizen and a complete disregard of the laws that govern this land.

Really? I'm pretty sure I just classified a drug addict who steals from good people as a criminal. Are they not?

[9M62]

Really? I'm pretty sure I just classified a drug addict who steals from good people as a criminal. Are they not?

Don't bother; Remember, some of these people on this forum openly state that they wouldn't "just stand by" if they saw you making an arrest that they felt was unconstitutional.

Then, out of the other side of their mouth, they say that you're crazy for looking at civilians with a suspicious eye and that you should have no reason to fear for your safety from regular civilians.

Brush it off bro, brush it off.

Thanks for what you do.

Now, can we go back to beating down these ridiculous anti-gun laws and get more people to buy and own guns!?!?!?

[SGTTOM]

Agreed, I'm done with it. Thank you sir!

[TRICKSTER]

There are something like 80,000 LEOs in this state. There are something like 8,000,000 gun owners? Funny how some can rationalize that all the bad gun laws are the fault of the LEOs not speaking up.

[wildhawker]

Example please? When do LEO'S take guns from the innocent? I know I have found a loaded weapon in a good persons car when he crossed over from Arizona. He wasn't a drug addict and had no criminal history. I explained to him it would be a good idea to pull over and unload his weapon before crossing the state line. I unloaded it for him and let him place his weapon into his vehicle in a legal manner. I did not arrest him or take away his firearm. All my LEO buddies agreed I made the right choice. So again... give me an example of the the opposite being done. Had he been a drug addict of had a criminal record I would have handled it differently.

For starters, see Haynie v. Harris.

[wildhawker]

There are something like 80,000 LEOs in this state. There are something like 8,000,000 gun owners? Funny how some can rationalize that all the bad gun laws are the fault of the LEOs not speaking up.

No, but the fact that they allowed their associations to speak for them in support of gun control laws carries some responsibility.

[TRICKSTER]

No, but the fact that they allowed their associations to speak for them in support of gun control laws carries some responsibility.

Most department associations do not get involved in statewide politics, that is not their job.

8 million gun owners but it's all the LEOs fault.
Considering that only 7,116,972 voted in the last election, I think that we can clearly place the blame on the gun owners in this state failing to stand up for gun rights, many of them are right here on this board.

[wildhawker]

Most department associations do not get involved in statewide politics, that is not their job.

8 million gun owners but it's all the LEOs fault.
Considering that only 7,116,972 voted in the last election, I think that we can clearly place the blame on the gun owners in this state failing to stand up for gun rights, many of them are right here on this board.

I won't argue that gun owners don't share in the responsibility. But with a 2:1 voter reg ratio and severe political influence by LE associations in support of bad laws, it's sort of an immaterial calculus.

[TRICKSTER]

I won't argue that gun owners don't share in the responsibility. But with a 2:1 voter reg ratio and severe political influence by LE associations in support of bad laws, it's sort of an immaterial calculus.

There are more gun owners in this state than there are people that voted.
Voter reg ratios don't matter when there are more gun owners than people that actually voted, gun owners that vote matter.

[wildhawker]

There are more gun owners in this state than there are people that voted.
Voter reg ratios don't matter when there are more gun owners than people that actually voted, gun owners that vote matter.

1. Can you cite the source of the data from which you arrived at the asserted number of gun owners?

2. Voter registration ratios don't matter?(!)

3. Are you suggesting that active support of anti-gun bills (and financing of anti-gun candidates) by LE associations and individuals in the LE community are somehow lesser sins than political ignorance and refraining from voting?

4. Do you support qualified immunity for LE who improperly arrest law-abiding gun owners or seize their property?

5. Should unconstitutional laws be enforced?

-Brandon