MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[jandmtv]

Hey guys, serious question. What's to stop us from sticking a magnet on the BB after we register our weapons as AW? Not like we are removing the BB and I don't remember reading anything that says the tool can't be attached to the rifle.

[edwardm]

(b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).

Citing PC 30900.

By that phrasing, if you:

1. Had an "AW" matching the characteristics,
2. Between 1/1/2001 & 12/31/2016,
3. Which was lawfully possessed, then

you shall register.

If someone wants to transmute that into something like "If you de-feature after 12/31/2016, you can evade the registration status, because X, Y, and Z", have at it. I'm all ears to hear how you can make that leap, but argue that BB->USGI release post-registration is somehow a legitimate "interpretation" of statute. The date for de-featuring has passed. De-featuring today won't evade the registration requirement. Registering, de-featuring, and de-registering would be the only path which adheres to the black letter law.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

Only a few people here are seriously (or perhaps not) talking abut attempting to register something with a standard mag release. That is clearly not eligible because it doesn't meet the definition of lawfully possessed prior to 1/1/17. What most here are questioning is replacing the bullet button post registration. The DOJ regs say not to, but once it's registered, what you would have done was swap one assault weapon characteristic for another, which is not prohibited in the penal code. Manufacturing an assault weapon from a registered assault weapon seems like a ridiculous proposition. It's clear the DOJ wants another class of assault weapons, but that's not what the legislature gave them.

Post-registration AW with standard mag release:

1. Is it an assault weapon? Yes. PC 30605.
   
2. Is there a "except as provided in this chapter" provision? Yes. PC 30680.
   
3. Are you within the terms of the "except as provided in this chapter" provision? No. PC 30680(b), (c).

The fact that you may get an "assault weapon" sentence enhancement under another penal code section that refers to "assault weapons" as defined by PC 30510 or 30515, and it doesn't matter what assault weapon you have for purposes for those statutes, doesn't help you with the code sections that matter here, i.e., those that govern what assault weapons may and may not be possessed and registered under SB 880. Under the code sections that matter, you may not possess or register an AW with standard mag release because it was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

Actually, it doesn't say that.


...



Which covers more than just the Bullet Button. It covers the iterations of the BB, Raddlock, the original Prince50 kit (which for early adopters, meant reloading by splitting the upper & lower), and whatever other variations exist on the "bullet is a tool" category of magazine releases.

I don't think I disagree with you here (qualified by my not having looked at every iteration of mag release in light of the new regs). I have referred to "compliance devices" in other posts in this thread (here too) and when I use "bullet button" it is for the sake of convenience and for making a specific argument about registering AWs with standard mag releases. If it was lawfully possessed with bullet button or other compliance device under pre-2017 law, you should be able to register it. If it was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, it is not registrable and may not be possessed lawfully now. I think the DoJ regulations may have opened up a separate can of worms with its new regulatory definition of "bullet button" (see my prior posts in this thread about Raddlocks), that's another story.

[Soul_Cal]

So when is the time to discuss what they did miss or opened the door? I think some have figured it out or at least getting close.

[bob.dakeelstripe]

So when is the time to discuss what they did miss or opened the door? I think some have figured it out or at least getting close.

SHHHH for now but I do have my plan in place using every thing exactly they way it's written. It's a non issue for me.

Except for the fact it's a Bull**** Situation that we shouldn't have to deal with ..

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

I appreciate the response. I keep trying to find clear verbiage to that effect in the text of SB880, but so far the closest I can find is reading a few assumptions into 30900(b)(1)

I think I've been reading it like this: (b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, (including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool,) shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5)

While I think you are arguing I should have been reading it like this: (b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, (including those weapons) with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5)

Essentially this is the difference between:

"If you legally possessed an assault weapon without a fixed magazine (including weapons that used tool release mag locks), then you shall register it as an assault weapon without a fixed magazine."

and

"If you legally possessed an assault weapon without a fixed magazine but with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, then you shall register that firearm as an assault weapon without a fixed magazine but with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool."

Honestly, while your interpretation makes complete sense of the DOJ regulations, still I think my original interpretation requires a less tortured convolution of the sentence structure and supports a simpler interpretation of the purpose of the "including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool" clause.

This is overly and unnecessary complicated. An AW with standard mag release is an AW that does not have a fixed magazine but because it was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, it may not be registered or possessed now.

[jcwatchdog]

This is overly and unnecessary complicated. An AW with standard mag release is an AW that does not have a fixed magazine but because it was not lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, it may not be registered or possessed now.

What isn't overly complicated is that once something is a AW, as defined in the PC, features can be added and removed, mag release can be changed, uppers can be changed, and everything else can be changed, as long as when all is said and done, after everything it's still a registered AW. The doj can't define a new category of AW. The bullet button has no function anymore. It's a detachable magazine, different than a regular mag release, but ultimately the same functionally. There is no reason it can't be changed.

[bruss01]

What isn't overly complicated is that once something is a AW, as defined in the PC, features can be added and removed, mag release can be changed, uppers can be changed, and everything else can be changed, as long as when all is said and done, after everything it's still a registered AW. The doj can't define a new category of AW. The bullet button has no function anymore. It's a detachable magazine, different than a regular mag release, but ultimately the same functionally. There is no reason it can't be changed.

Except that, they wrote the new regs to say specifically "it can't be changed".

You are talking logic, they are talking authority, guess which one trumps which? In their court of law, their rules prevail, unless we can successfully sue to get it changed.

[bruss01]

Actually it had to have been a complete functioning SACF rifle by December 31, a stripped lower with a bullet button wouldn't be eligible.

Myself, wife and a friend acquired some brand new stripped lowers the last week in December. It was a pain because I'd have rather spent holiday season free time doing something besides building rifles, but we did, thankfully I had sufficient parts on hand to complete the builds to a fully working and legal configuration prior to midnight on the 31st. I doubt anyone would have questioned it if we had done it in January but I make every effort to comply with the law. I think this law stands a good chance of being overturned/rescinded, but I am not going to base my actions on what "might" happen.

[ifilef]

What isn't overly complicated is that once something is a AW, as defined in the PC, features can be added and removed, mag release can be changed, uppers can be changed, and everything else can be changed, as long as when all is said and done, after everything it's still a registered AW. The doj can't define a new category of AW. The bullet button has no function anymore. It's a detachable magazine, different than a regular mag release, but ultimately the same functionally. There is no reason it can't be changed.

Please cite authority for the portion in bold.

[Mesa Defense]

Its all clear as mud..,...

[Crazed_SS]

Please cite authority for the portion in bold.

The authority is it's not illegal.

Do you know how the law works? It's a blacklist of things you cant do , not a whitelist of things you can do.


If a thing isn't illegal, it's legal.

[God Bless America]

It's a detachable magazine, different than a regular mag release, but ultimately the same functionally. There is no reason it can't be changed.

So it's a distinction with a difference?

If they are different, then they are not the same.

And the reason they cannot be changed is the law - DOJ has said so.

You are interpreting the PC, they can too.

[Sousuke]

Personally...I'd just give up on this thread until later this week when we have more information.