MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[meno377]

A magazine release is a detachable magazine.

A BB is NOT a detachable magazine. 5471(m).

There is a difference legally. A SACF featured rife with a magazine release CAN NOT be registered as an AW this time.

A BB'd one can.

And once again you leave out one element that shows a BB rifle is a non fixed (detachable magazine). It's printed right in 5471(m) highlighted. Why do you ignore that????

5471-M: Detachable magazine means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action or use of a tool. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. An ammunition feeding device include any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

An AR-15 style firearm that has a bullet-button style magazine release with a magnet left on the bullet button constitutes a detachable magazine. An AR-15 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, magazine catch spring and magazine release button) constitutes a detachable magazine. An AK-47 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, spring and rivet/pin) constitutes a detachable magazine.

[Smedkcuf]

Pretty amazing to me that everyone thinks they're going to somehow "prove" DOJ wrong. If you take the regulations in the context of the total CA assault weapon scheme (including that CA legislature clearly did not intend to "re-open" the 2000 ban's registration, as Fabio had tried to explain), DOJs regulations are just implementing what CA legislature intended.

The only thing the legislature "intended" was to ban SACF rifles with bullet buttons. Why would they prefer we keep bullet buttons when they had this to say in the Senate Floor analysis and Assembly Public Safety analysis of SB 880?

High-capacity detachable ammunition magazines allow shooters to expel large amounts of ammunition quickly and have no sporting purpose. However, in California an ammunition magazine is not viewed as detachable if a “tool” is required to remove it from the weapon. The “bullet button” is a release button for the ammunition magazine that can be activated with the tip of a bullet. With the tip of the bullet replacing the use of a finger in activating the release, the button can be pushed and the detachable ammunition magazine removed and replaced in seconds. Compared to the release process for a standard detachable ammunition magazine it is a distinction without a difference.

[Discogodfather]

The only thing the legislature "intended" was to ban SACF rifles with bullet buttons. Why would they prefer we keep bullet buttons when they had this to say in the Senate Floor analysis and Assembly Public Safety analysis of SB 880?

I agree, you can't make the argument that there is a distinction without a difference and that there is in fact a difference.

But that's a logical argument not a legal one. That's what Fabio is good at, separating the arguments into what is logical and what is legal. We can all hope the error in logic hurts them but it might not make any difference legally.

At any rate its a lost cause for YEARS until a court says otherwise.

[Mr. Torgue]

It blows my mind that anyone thinks they're going to get away with switching out their bullet button for a standard release with the law as it is written. The only way this will be allowed to happen is if somehow the law is challenged in court and it is struck down, which imo, is very unlikely.

It flat out states that to register the firearm needed to be possessed by Dec 31st 2016. Standard magazine releases were not legal on firearms during that time unless on a firearm already registered as an AW(which they will not register again). Then they want pictures of the bullet button on the functioning firearm, and explicitly state you cannot remove the magazine release.

It's as cut and dried as can be and some people just refuse to see it for whatever reason. This dangerous FUD is going to get someone caught up in a legal battle they didn't see coming and possibly thrown in prison with a felony preventing them from ever having another firearm. There's well established laws that noncompliance is grounds for revocation of permits, there's no reason to believe assault weapons are any different and somehow immune to having their registration pulled.

The only question is how zealous the DA going after you will be and if there will be any sympathy from the jury and judge.

[Smedkcuf]

It blows my mind that anyone thinks they're going to get away with switching out their bullet button for a standard release with the law as it is written. The only way this will be allowed to happen is if somehow the law is challenged in court and it is struck down, which imo, is very unlikely.

It flat out states that to register the firearm needed to be possessed by Dec 31st 2016. Standard magazine releases were not legal on firearms during that time unless on a firearm already registered as an AW(which they will not register again). Then they want pictures of the bullet button on the functioning firearm, and explicitly state you cannot remove the magazine release.

It's as cut and dried as can be and some people just refuse to see it for whatever reason. This dangerous FUD is going to get someone caught up in a legal battle they didn't see coming and possibly thrown in prison with a felony preventing them from ever having another firearm. There's well established laws that noncompliance is grounds for revocation of permits, there's no reason to believe assault weapons are any different and somehow immune to having their registration pulled.

The only question is how zealous the DA going after you will be and if there will be any sympathy from the jury and judge.

It's not "cut and dry", because once registered, PC 30515 applies since it is a registered assault weapon. Here it is for you:

SECTION 1. Section 30515 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:

The sections that you say "flat out states that to register the firearm needed to be possessed by Dec 31st 2016", applies only for determining eligibility to register, not making new requirements on assault weapons once they are registered. The legislature would have explicitly created a new category of assault weapons with new requirements if that was the intent. And we wouldn't have a 57 page thread because it would have been very clear in that case.
Also you have the new OAL definition change which I'm sure you'd be able to clear up for us since it's so cut and dry for you. Are tavor owners now felons? Are you allowed to have an OAL of less than 30" and above 26" once registered? Please let us know.

[unclerandy]

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[Mr. Torgue]

It's not "cut and dry", because once registered, PC 30515 applies since it is a registered assault weapon. Here it is for you:



The sections that you say "flat out states that to register the firearm needed to be possessed by Dec 31st 2016", applies only for determining eligibility to register, not making new requirements on assault weapons once they are registered. The legislature would have explicitly created a new category of assault weapons with new requirements if that was the intent. And we wouldn't have a 57 page thread because it would have been very clear in that case.
Also you have the new OAL definition change which I'm sure you'd be able to clear up for us since it's so cut and dry for you. Are tavor owners now felons? Are you allowed to have an OAL of less than 30" and above 26" once registered? Please let us know.

Nowhere did I ever touch the OAL changes so your point is irrelevant and only meant to distract. If you can follow along, it states the firearm had to be legally possessed before the 31st, you could not legally buy an AR with a standard release after 2000. The law also clearly states you cannot change the bullet button. Try whatever mental gymnastics you want to justify your wrongful argument but avoid spreading the disinformation to others since if they don't know any better they're now guilty of a felony.

[parahuman]

Okay, so apologies if this has been addressed. I scrolled through some postings but didn't see anything specific to my query. If I just missed it I hope you will forgive me.

As I understand it a semiautomatic rifle with the evil features and a bullet button was legal before Dec 31st 2016. As of January 1st such rifles are considered Assault Weapons. The owner of such a rifle must register it before Jan 1st 2018. After registration the owner may not modify the magazine release of said registered assault weapon (so no removal of the bullet button).

This leads to my question. If the rifle in question is already considered an Assault Weapon on Jan 1st 2017 even though it has a bullet button, could one remove the bullet button (before registration) and be in the clear?

As I understand it, the rifle must have been a legally possessed before Dec 31st, but where does it say that it cannot be modified after that date but before registration? If I am correct the person is in possession of an assault rifle regardless, they are just given the opportunity to register it through Dec 31st 2017.

Please correct me if I am wrong or my reasoning is flawed. Thank you.

[Discogodfather]

Okay, so apologies if this has been addressed. I scrolled through some postings but didn't see anything specific to my query. If I just missed it I hope you will forgive me.

As I understand it a semiautomatic rifle with the evil features and a bullet button was legal before Dec 31st 2016. As of January 1st such rifles are considered Assault Weapons. The owner of such a rifle must register it before Jan 1st 2018. After registration the owner may not modify the magazine release of said registered assault weapon (so no removal of the bullet button).

This leads to my question. If the rifle in question is already considered an Assault Weapon on Jan 1st 2017 even though it has a bullet button, could one remove the bullet button (before registration) and be in the clear?

As I understand it, the rifle must have been a legally possessed before Dec 31st, but where does it say that it cannot be modified after that date but before registration? If I am correct the person is in possession of an assault rifle regardless, they are just given the opportunity to register it through Dec 31st 2017.

Please correct me if I am wrong or my reasoning is flawed. Thank you.

You know, this is interesting. I can't find anything that explicitly states that they will not register a rifle with a standard mag release. But if you take the BB off and install standard mag release, then you will be guilty of manufacturing an AW, and thus setting yourself up for prosecution with a submitted photo?

[ifilef]

This leads to my question. If the rifle in question is already considered an Assault Weapon on Jan 1st 2017 even though it has a bullet button, could one remove the bullet button (before registration) and be in the clear?

As I understand it, the rifle must have been a legally possessed before Dec 31st, but where does it say that it cannot be modified after that date but before registration? If I am correct the person is in possession of an assault rifle regardless, they are just given the opportunity to register it through Dec 31st 2017.

Please correct me if I am wrong or my reasoning is flawed. Thank you.

You are even in a worse position if you do so before registration than after.

In either scenario, though, you are 'fried' in my opinion.

Felony arrest for possession of an unlawful AW and for manufacturing. PC 30605, 30600.

[parahuman]

You are even in a worse position if you do so before registration than after.

In either scenario, though, you are 'fried' in my opinion.

Felony arrest for possession of an unlawful AW and for manufacturing. PC 30605, 30600.

Sorry if I'm just not getting it.

I'm not understanding how a person could be charged for manufacturing an assault weapon if they are already in possession of an assault weapon (legally purchased before Dec 31st) under the new law. I understand that would be the case for removing the bullet button when it was the only thing keeping the rifle from being considered an assault weapon. But now that it is an assault weapon anyway how is removing the bullet button before registering (which makes a specific rule against alteration post registration) making it an "assaultier" weapon?

I'm not seeing where modifying your "assault weapon" is against the law. I am as of this moment in possession of an assault weapon according to the law. It was legally purchased before the law took effect and so I am able to register it. If the bullet button was keeping it from violating the law making it an assault weapon pre-Jan 1st...but it is now an assault weapon post-Jan 1st...any modification I do to my rifle is to what is already an assault rifle in my possession...which I do not believe is illegal to do as long as it still remains within the confines of what a legal assault weapon is...and since I have until Dec 31st to register it, and the prohibition of removing the bullet button was to A: Keep it from being an assault weapon (which it already is) and B: Only restricted going forward post registration..as long as I abide by the regulations for owning,operating, transporting and storing an assault weapon I am within the law. No?

[edwardm]

It blows my mind that anyone thinks they're going to get away with switching out their bullet button for a standard release with the law as it is written. The only way this will be allowed to happen is if somehow the law is challenged in court and it is struck down, which imo, is very unlikely.

It flat out states that to register the firearm needed to be possessed by Dec 31st 2016. Standard magazine releases were not legal on firearms during that time unless on a firearm already registered as an AW(which they will not register again). Then they want pictures of the bullet button on the functioning firearm, and explicitly state you cannot remove the magazine release.

It's as cut and dried as can be and some people just refuse to see it for whatever reason. This dangerous FUD is going to get someone caught up in a legal battle they didn't see coming and possibly thrown in prison with a felony preventing them from ever having another firearm. There's well established laws that noncompliance is grounds for revocation of permits, there's no reason to believe assault weapons are any different and somehow immune to having their registration pulled.

The only question is how zealous the DA going after you will be and if there will be any sympathy from the jury and judge.

Which law school should I sue to get your tuition refunded?


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[danez71]

Okay, so apologies if this has been addressed. I scrolled through some postings but didn't see anything specific to my query. If I just missed it I hope you will forgive me.

As I understand it a semiautomatic rifle with the evil features and a bullet button was legal before Dec 31st 2016. As of January 1st such rifles are considered Assault Weapons. The owner of such a rifle must register it before Jan 1st 2018. After registration the owner may not modify the magazine release of said registered assault weapon (so no removal of the bullet button).

This leads to my question. If the rifle in question is already considered an Assault Weapon on Jan 1st 2017 even though it has a bullet button, could one remove the bullet button (before registration) and be in the clear?

As I understand it, the rifle must have been a legally possessed before Dec 31st, but where does it say that it cannot be modified after that date but before registration? If I am correct the person is in possession of an assault rifle regardless, they are just given the opportunity to register it through Dec 31st 2017.

Please correct me if I am wrong or my reasoning is flawed. Thank you.

Your forgetting the previous AW ban.
At no time after about 2000 can you own an AW with out a BB with out it being registered by the deadline back then.

There is where your reasoning is flawed.

You have to register your BB rifle in 2017 and it had to have been owned prior to 2017.

[danez71]

Which law school should I sue to get your tuition refunded?


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If you think you can remove the BB, which is how your post is coming across, then its probably best for you to save your money from suing any school and use it to post bail for taking off the BB if you get caught.

[thorium]

This leads to my question. If the rifle in question is already considered an Assault Weapon on Jan 1st 2017 even though it has a bullet button, could one remove the bullet button (before registration) and be in the clear?

You now have an assault weapon, but there's an exemption, essentially a year grace period to register it. The exemption is only for registering a gun that was legal between 2001-2016 i.e. Bullet button gun.

If you put a regular mag release on, you're trying to register something that was NOT legal between 2001-2016, and you no longer fit into the exemption.

CA DOJ is simply taking this a natural step further and doing what regulations are for, detailing out the finer points of a statutory law. They are saying "you get to register what was legal between 2001-2016. After you do, you don't get to turn it into something that would have been illegal in the first place and never eligible for registration."

Everyone here will debate that legislature didn't intend this, and maybe they didn't, but it doesn't matter because DOJ will be given broad latitude on implementing regulations. DOJ is cleaning up the implementation details of the law via regulations, and I doubt our democrat super majority legislature would agree with you and say DOJ is taking it too far, plus due to the simple logic of my 2nd paraphrase, neither will a court.

As Fabio has said, to argue that, is arguing the CA legislature intended to open the pre <2000 registration, and the statutory law is only allowing registration/exemption for bullet button rifles ("legal from 2001-2016" class) NOT regular mag release "legal <2000" class rifles, which proves the point that was not the legislative intent.