MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[gdt82]

It does not entitle one to shoot with a magazine release. You missed the boat on those.

Magazine release not lawful after 2000.

Magazine release not lawful before 1/1/2017.

Apples n oranges

Don't, not registrable, felony.

Good 'luck'.

All reference to magazine release has been deleted, except for fixed versus non-fixed. Detachable is no longer a definition that exists in the penal code. Only in the DOJ regs.

[gdt82]

30600 I believe is manufacturing. 30605 is poss of unlawful AW.

Both of these codes give exceptions to those who register under 30900. So we come full circle. This whole thing hinges upon how much leeway DOJ gets with regards to 30900 and regulations.

[Shell]

Is your response a joke? The new law specifically makes them the same LOL. In a legal sense you have to use definitions in the penal code. Common sense need not apply. How do you think the original bullet button was OK? It was a strange device that cleverly used the wording of the penal code to its advantage. Under the new penal code 30515, a standard mag release is absolutely the same device as a bullet button.

The law makes them the same. The DOJ Rule 5477 has subverted that by writing new law without authority from the Legislature.

Kamala Harris doesn't care. She's a Senator-elect, and just doesn't care. If it gets overturned in court, she'll still get a "thanks for trying" from the DNC when running for president in 2020/2024.

[ifilef]

So as I see it the only good thing about registering is that standard mag release becomes legal so you can throw away the bullet button.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

People who really believe and act on that belief may end up in state prison for 'manufacturing'. 4, 6 or 8 years. Judges usually sentence to the middle term.

You have the PC, and the regs specifically prohibit.

Good 'luck'.

[meno377]

Is your response a joke? The new law specifically makes them the same LOL. In a legal sense you have to use definitions in the penal code. Common sense need not apply. How do you think the original bullet button was OK? It was a strange device that cleverly used the wording of the penal code to its advantage. Under the new penal code 30515, a standard mag release is absolutely the same device as a bullet button.

When you define the new law as a rifle with a detachable magazine, you are correct. But the 2nd issue is that the "bullet button" rifles from 2001-2016 were legal under the old law and the new law states that you can register those rifles between 1/1/2017 and 1/1/2018.

What this means to me is that you cannot register a rifle with a standard magazine release even though by definition of the new law stating both styles are the same. The registration process differentiates the two styles, while the new definition of a detachable magazine says they are the same.

[Shell]

People who really believe that and act on it may end up in state prison for 'manufacturing'. 4, 6 or 8 years. Judges usually sentence to the middle term.

You have the PC, and the regs specifically prohibit.

Good 'luck'.

Again, the regs (Rule 5477) clearly prohibits. At least acknowledge there is considerable disagreement on the PC portion.

I have only seen one person other than FGG concur with you that the PC prohibits removal of the BB, since I last noted that nearly everyone disagrees with you on this one.

All reference to magazine release has been deleted, except for fixed versus non-fixed. Detachable is no longer a definition that exists in the penal code. Only in the DOJ regs.

Precisely why.

[ifilef]

Both of these codes give exceptions to those who register under 30900. So we come full circle. This whole thing hinges upon how much leeway DOJ gets with regards to 30900 and regulations.

They will get a lot of leeway in this state.

I don't think a defendant will be able to avail himself pursuant to 30680 or any other applicable statute if he engages in conduct that constitutes a felony arising out of a complete breach of the foundational requisites for registration in the first place. Those statutes do not protect felonious conduct, they only show that you registered as an AW so you won't be charged with the exception I noted.

Say the person registers and adds a grenade launcher with grenade or makes the firearm select fire. What happens then? What if he alters the firearm post-registration to do the foregoing or shorten the barrel to 14" or OAL to 24". Or switch out the BB for an unlawful magazine release (a felony)?

And the DOJ or judge may void the registration ab initio if proven that a magazine release was substituted for the bullet button, a malum in se act.

What code gives exceptions to 30600? Is it 30675 to which you refer?

No sense in going round further. No one is going to be foolish enough to shoot with a mag release without a court ruling in our favor. Not going to happen.

[gdt82]

What this means to me is that you cannot register a rifle with a standard magazine even though by definition of the new law stating both styles are the same. The registration process differentiates the two styles, while the new definition of a fixed magazine says they are the same.

Yes, but what we have been discussing is what happens if you register in current configuration (with bullet button) and then later remove the bullet button, what happens? DOJ regs say you can't, but it's very unclear where the legal basis for that comes. Once registered, if you alter the mag release mechanism, you haven't done anything to violate the penal code. You have a legally registered AW and have stayed within all penal code definitions, the only thing you have done is disobeyed DOJ regulation 5477, which isn't a law. A regulation with no basis in the penal code has no teeth. That's what people are discussing here.

[meno377]

Yes, but what we have been discussing is what happens if you register in current configuration (with bullet button) and then later remove the bullet button, what happens? DOJ regs say you can't, but it's very unclear where the legal basis for that comes. Once registered, if you alter the mag release mechanism, you haven't done anything to violate the penal code. You have a legally registered AW and have stayed within all penal code definitions, the only thing you have done is disobeyed DOJ regulation 5477, which isn't a law. A regulation with no basis in the penal code has no teeth. That's what people are discussing here.

This is true and will most likely be challenged.

[Smedkcuf]

I've explained this before. The AW with standard mag release is not the AW with BB that you lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and it is not the AW with BB that you registered.

If you shorten the length to 26" after you register, you also would have not been allowed to lawfully possess it like that prior to Jan 1 2017, but that's irrelevant because it's now a registered assault weapon, which allows for that feature, and the same goes for a standard mag release per 30515 (a). What you're saying is equivalent to saying that if the regulations said you must paint the rifle pink in order to register, you must do so or you're breaking the law. They don't have legal authority to do so, but of course a court has to agree in the end.

[M1AFrankie32]

Exactly. They seem to be arguing that those reference the eligibility to remain registered, but I don't see that in the PC.

Your position assumes that all AWs are treated equal for registration/possession purposes, but this is not true. In California, there is a "Category" for each AW ban. When one lawfully registers his/her AW, CalDOJ will assign the AW to the category that corresponds with the ban. In this case, it will likely be Category 4.

If your AW is lawfully registered under Category 4, but you modify it to be a Category 3 AW (i.e., detachable magazine), then you would need a Category 3 registration for that AW to maintain lawful possession. However, the window for registering Category 3 AWs expired 12/31/2000.

[gdt82]

I don't think a defendant will be able to avail himself pursuant to 30680 or any other applicable statute if he engages in conduct that constitutes a felony. And the DOJ or judge may void the registration ab initio if proven that a magazine release was substituted for the bullet button.

What code gives exceptions to 30600? Is it 30675 to which you refer?

I agree that if you commit a felony you would be screwed. That's the whole question here. How is changing a mag release AFTER registration committing a felony when you stay within penal code? DOJ reg 5477 does not a felony make. Only PC.

Specifically penal code 30675b:
(b) Sections 30600, 30605, and 30610 shall not apply to any of the following persons:
(1) A person acting in accordance with Article 5 (commencing with Section 30900).

This whole thing takes us back to 30900 and the regulations. So the question is, can the DOJ make broad sweeping regulations that go well beyond the letter of the law? If the answer is yes, then we're stuck, but that should be a concern to all citizens regardless of their position on guns. The executive branch should not be able to go beyond what the legislative branch allows in the law.

[ifilef]

Again, the regs (Rule 5477) clearly prohibits. At least acknowledge there is considerable disagreement on the PC portion.

I have only seen one person other than FGG concur with you that the PC prohibits removal of the BB, since I last noted that nearly everyone disagrees with you on this one.
Precisely why.

Yes, I acknowledge different opinions on the PC.

Are we up on a vote? Whoever gets the most votes is clearly right about the issue? The mob rules? lol

[Discogodfather]

Usual circular arguments concentrating on things way above anyone's pay grade. Everyone is all of a sudden a constitutional lawyer with all kinds of ideas. Typical of trying to fight the last battle, and losing all sight of the realities.

The reality is the BB will have to be kept on until someone tests it and there is a court date, and this may never happen. We also have no way to estimate a timetable and no guarantee of an outcome, no one knows. It's literally like arguing about how many angels dance on the head of a pin.

The only lawyer here has made good arguments that show that this is not a light issue that can be easily litigated, but people just continue to insult and say silly things that mean nothing.

The best we can hope for now is concentrating on the process of registering. If tons of people do register (which I am convinced will happen) and given the huge number of BB rifles even 20% reg would mean hundreds and thousands of rifles. Does anyone know if DOJ can process this stuff in time? They have to review 4 pictures of the rifles, which I am sure will come in all kinds of disparate formats and varying quality of lighting. That's a damn tall order for a room of 30 analysts that have been trained to do so. Also, everyone always assumes AR, because fake gun guys think it's the only rifle in existance. You're telling me that these analysts are going to be able to spot a working, legal BB from a VZ-58 or an AUG? How about some even more obscure rifles? I have made one off BB's for all kinds of rifles most in this thread have never heard of. You're telling me DOJ will be able to look at a pic and determine anything without hours of review?

It seems almost impossible to me that they are going to be able to handle this process without LONG delays and processing problems. How about a backlog of one hundred thousand rifles? You young ones don't remember what a painfully slow process it was to get anything done back during the first three reg periods, and they had one tenth the amount of rifles to deal with.

I doubt the DOJ has prepared at all for this mess. And with their dismal failure to register rifles according to their own rules we might have the hail mary we all prayed for.

[ifilef]

I agree that if you commit a felony you would be screwed. That's the whole question here. How is changing a mag release AFTER registration committing a felony when you stay within penal code? DOJ reg 5477 does not a felony make. Only PC.

Specifically penal code 30675b:
(b) Sections 30600, 30605, and 30610 shall not apply to any of the following persons:
(1) A person acting in accordance with Article 5 (commencing with Section 30900).

This whole thing takes us back to 30900 and the regulations. So the question is, can the DOJ make broad sweeping regulations that go well beyond the letter of the law? If the answer is yes, then we're stuck, but that should be a concern to all citizens regardless of their position on guns. The executive branch should not be able to go beyond what the legislative branch allows in the law.

Well, I refer you to the authority recited by DOJ for 5477. Take it from there.

PC 30900. Suggest reading the entire statute and think of the weapons and mag release mechanisms that were lawfully possessed before deemed AW and compare to this latest registration period and ban.

I'm done because no one's going to shoot with mag release after registration unless and until a court grants a writ of pro (dare I say 'not likely') and they're certainly not going to shoot with mag release before they register unless they are in 'self-destructive' mode.

Good night.