BODY ARMOR: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

[dx2]

Been waiting for a while to see how the Patriot 2 plates do against M193, where did they go?

i did a search and it seems that the supplier kept increasing the price of the material and after several increases, maingun decided it was too much.

[C.W.M.V.]

i did a search and it seems that the supplier kept increasing the price of the material and after several increases, maingun decided it was too much.

Well, that sucks.

[dx2]

this wasn't messaged to me, just what i found that they messaged to this particular person...

Received this email today from Maingun.biz :

Quote:
Folks, I guessing that most of you were as horrified by the police shootings last week as we were. Dallas was bad enough, but the copycats over the weekend were worse. Every time I see that video of the cop being shot in the back I cringe. Because you and I know that there are things like Patriot Plate that would have kept them alive.

So, now to the news.

Patriot Plate 2 might be done with. Every time we’ve reordered the plates, they’ve raised the price. $10 here, $20 there, eventually it adds up. We try hard to keep costs low, but eventually even I think it costs too much. They’ve told us that the next batch will cost us $40 a plate more! We raised the prices yesterday.

I’m not sure that we’ll continue with Patriot Plate 2 for now. We are actively searching for another supplier, but so far no luck. Our supplier of Patriot Plate 1 is working hard to make it work.

Our prices on the web page reflect how much we have to get to reorder the stuff. The folks on this mailing list have been very loyal supporters. We have a few sets left before we have to reorder, so we’re going to let you order it (if you want to) at the old price. Will save $80 on a pair, compared to the new price!

Order your Patriot Plate 2 items. At the checkout screen, enter the discount code, and press 'apply'. You should see your discount appear on the order screen. This also applies to Patriot Plate 2 items with vests, not just plates.

Patriot Plate 1 continues to sell well. The summertime is always slower, so based on experience, I figured we had enough plates to last until the middle of August (when our next batch is due in).

Then Dallas and the follow on bs happened. Orders have been pouring in. We were off at a gun show this past weekend, and we had to go home Saturday to get more armor!

The plant we’ve been getting the armor from can’t speed up the order, so that batch will be ready around the 19th of August. The GREAT NEWS is that our original plant is back and ready to make our plates again, and should have the plates to us in a week or so. One more week to curve and prime them, and we should be up and running with plates by the 29th of July at the latest!
Worst case for folks that need armor is a two week delay!

We appreciate all of your help and support in helping us make Patriot Plate a reality. Achieving the dream of “quality armor at a reasonable price for regular folks”.

[Buffman]

Been waiting for a while to see how the Patriot 2 plates do against M193, where did they go?

I wonder if they'd be interested in a T&E. Their PP1 is just 46100 steel, which I tested above, and it is a solid level III performer, but will not stop M193..

[Buffman]

Cold plate test? Sure why not. Cool it down to temperatures no one will live in, in the first place, check , Shoot the crap out of it to see if it fails: check!

[dx2]

So i got my patriot armor plates and carrier. the plates are 10x12. the carrier is a viper MOPC. 2 problems.

1. the pouches on the carrier appear to be made to hold larger plates as well because when i put my carrier on, it sits pretty well, up to the notch in my throat, but the plates are lower because they rest on the bottom of the pouch. so the plates themselves sit an inch lower than the throat notch. is this normal? if not, is there a remedy? or do i need a different carrier? see #2 for a reason i may need a different one anyway.

2. i don't think i can get the side straps short enough to snug the carrier. i guess i'm too skinny. i got the viper because it looked like a nice compact vest (where some are bulky). and it is, but apparently still not small enough for smaller guys.

thanks for any input.

[Portcullis]

Check your link, 1st paragraph

Sir... There is a missing '.' and in its place is a '/'. Courtesy FYI. Like the read and your site. Just 'FYI' is all.

http://www/drmorgear.wordpress.com[/url]

Just some recommendations (and this goes for any armor you buy, new or used):

Avoid Spectrashield, Spectra woven, or Dyneema: This material is based on polyethylene, the same stuff that milk jugs are made of. The armor version is referred to as Ultra High Molecular Weight Poly-Ethylene (UHMWPE). In situations where it gets hot (and most car trunks in the summer can get HOT), it will denature, reverting back to simple milk jug plastic. Armoring FAIL. I used to be a fan of this stuff until I read some great info by Kevin "Mad Dog" Mclung and Doctor Roberts ("DocGKR"), two names that you should look up and listen to. They did some eye opening tests (especially Mad Dog) on the dangers of Spectra. If the material goes over 180 F, it becomes a danger to its wearer.

Avoid Laminates: Something else both of these gentlemen strongly advise against. Laminated armor materials have huge drawbacks (Spectra laminates more so). They suck against contact shots (the muzzle blast literally melts them, allowing rounds to go right through), they delaminate with wear, they don't breathe (try wrapping yourself in saran wrap- that's how comfy they are), and they don't have anywhere near the shelf life of woven kevlar (which is practically immortal as far as I have seen). Steer clear of laminates:

Spectrashield contact shot- massive penetration:

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/spectrashieldpb-150x150.jpg

Spectrashield vs. Woven Kevlar BALCS panels contact shots- Spectrashield, massive penetration, with one shot .44 Mag, Woven Kevlar took 9 rounds before penetration:

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/34066-pbalcs44mag_contact-150x150.jpg

Spectrashield contact shot- massive penetration

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/spectra_contact_exit-150x150.jpg

Woven Kevlar Contact Shot- No penetration:

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kevlar_contact_exit-150x150.jpg

PHOTOS COURTESY ITS TACTICAL

AVOID ZYLON: For the love of everything that is holy. There was an amendment passed in congress outlawing this stuff for pete's sake. It was supposed to be the next great armor material, and lots of manufacturers jumped on it. Trouble is, combine heat with humidity (um, your body?) and the material degraded rapidly. This lead directly to the deaths of at least two police officers, and Zylon was (after much foot dragging) pulled. Don't ever use it.

THINGS TO LOOK FOR IN SURPLUS ARMOR TO AVOID THE ZYLON BLUES:

POINT BLANK FUSION (ZYLON AND SPECTRASHIELD)http://www.us-elitegear.com/fusion.htm

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/111390NCJRS.pdf

So kevlar, kevlar, kevlar. Woven, not laminated.

Regarding plates, Doc is on the right track. Rifle armor is important, as soft armor is completely useless against rifle rounds. M193 will go through about 120-140 layers of soft armor with enough zip left to seriously ruin your weekend. Believe me, I have checked.

Jpanzer- Just to reiterate, soft armor cannot be level III. Max rating is IIIA. And don't assume, get the specs, or better yet, test it yourself!

Rifle armor is rated either level III or IV. Now, the interesting thing is, the higher rating is not necessarily better. If you expect to be facing enemies with AP capability, the IV is nice to have (the spec calls for the plate to stop ONE round of .30-06 M2 AP black tip. One round). If you are expecting normal mild steel or lead cored, go with III by all means. The spec for III calls for stopping 6 rounds of M80 .308 ball @ 2750FPS within a 6" circle. So much better multi hit. Always read the specs!

Then there is the question whether the plate is designed to stand alone, or be worn with soft armor behind it ("In Conjunction With"). The stand alone plates tend to be heavier, as they typically have much thicker backings. This is nice if you are wearing just the plates and nothing else, but usually you have some sort of soft armor on, so the ICW are usually a better bet. Plus, just me, I like having extra padding. But if you like mobility, then stand alones might be for you.

Materials for rifle armor usually focus on hard stuff- soft armor defeats pistol rounds by catching, slowing, and deforming them. They are low velocity (relatively) with a fairly large frontal area. Rifle rounds are fast, with a small, pointed frontal area. The defeat mechanism is yawing, deforming, eroding, shattering, and frictive braking (the last one is unusual).

Steel- Tried and true, this material is great for stopping rounds (millions of steel targets can't all be wrong). It stops by deforming rounds. It can keep stopping them as long as the structure is uncompromised. Heat and mistreatment do not affect it. Drawbacks- it is heavy for its protective levels, it can rust if you chip the paint, and it splatters. Splatter is the reason most steel target manufacturers recommend being 50-100 yards from the target. When a round hits, it splashes little bits of copper and lead in a cone at an angle. If you are wearing one of these plates, that high velocity splash can end up in your throat and face. Make sure if you run steel plates you wear spall guards in FRONT of the plates. Just a few layers of kevlar are all that is needed.

UPDATE 5-28-2015- A company called Armor Wear has just released steel plates made with Ultra-Hard Steel ("UHS") which WILL stop M193 at 3000fps and above. I now consider this material best practices, with Mil HHS the bare minimum.

****Material choices: BEST is UHS (Ultra-Hard Steel/AR680) next best is Mil-Spec HHS (High Hardness Steel), offered by Armor-Wear and Maingun Surplus respectively****

AR500 (Abrasion Resistant, 500 Brinell Hardness) IS NO LONGER RECOMMENDED!

*UPDATED 5-28-2015*

A quick and dirty rule of thumb for stopping the M193 threat with steel plate: 500 bhn (Brinell Hardness) needs to be 10mm thick at 3100 fps to stop M193, 600 bhn needs to be 6mm, and at 58-63 Rc (Rockwell C), the plate can be made 4.5mm thick.

Titanium- Ahhh, Titanium. The very word brings to mind a supermetal that can do everything. More misconceptions surround this metal than just about any other. While true, it does make superior armor in some regards, it is not a panacea. Ti has been used for several decades in the construction of advanced airframes (the A-12 was over 60% Ti, a strategic metal mostly found in Russia...). Its claims to fame are: lightweight (60% the weight of steel @ comparable strengths) and corrosion resistance. It is virtually impervious to corrosion (ironically, because it oxidizes so quickly, forming a tough layer of TiO2). It cannot be hardened appreciably above the high 40s low 50s Rockwell C, and even that requires exotic precipitation hardening Beta alloys. The most common alloy in use is referred to as 6-4, which is short for 6Al4V (6 points of Aluminum and 4 points of Vanadium). Ti is a fairly tough metal, which makes it a good choice for armor plates for AFVs and APCs in thick section (I don't have the TE numbers compared to RHA in front of me right now, but they are pretty good). In soft armor vests, Ti plates are sought after as trauma plates vs. steel because they are lighter and do not rust. In sufficient thickness (2-3mm) they will stop all handgun rounds, up to and including some AP like the steel cored Tok rounds that play merry hob with most soft armor.
For rifle armor, Ti falls short- it is not hard enough to shatter high velocity rifle rounds (see above re: hardness). This is where the TE (thickness equivalency) comes into play. Ti can stop rifle rounds, even larger caliber cannon fire, but in thicknesses and weights that are prohibitive to us groundpounders. My research has shown M80 will be stopped by a 14mm thick plate of 6-4 backed by 4mm of Aramid. Most steel plates are between 4.5mm and 6mm depending on backing. There have been some hybrid steel/Ti plates, but at that point, you might as well just go all steel. Choose the right material for the job- for pistol rounds, Ti is a champ. For rifles, look elsewhere.

Ceramic- This material encompasses several types of ceramic. The most common is Alumina, also known as Aluminum Oxide or Al2O3. It is very hard (upwards of 9 on the Moh's hardness scale), fairly light, inert, and not TOO expensive. It stops projectiles by erosion, shattering, and yawing. It is almost never used alone, relying on a backing to keep the high velocity rubble and projectile fragments from continuing into your body cavity. It is great against lots of rifle rounds, and can be made proof against some AP rounds. It is insensitive to heat and water. Drawbacks- more expensive than steel, can be sensitive to mishandling (think cracked plates if you toss them in your gear bag). Other ceramics include Silicon Carbide and Boron Carbide (more expensive and VERY expensive respectively). These are lighter and harder materials, and can stop the very highest of threats (tungsten carbide cored AP for instance). Most level IV plates are B4C.

Spectra- Wait, didn't I just say don't use this? Yes, yes I did. I am including this here for information purposes, and also because it is a gray area. Spectra in hard armor is not as HUGE a danger as soft armor (this from DocGKR) because of the amount of heat required to get it isothermic (the same temp throughout). So, if you have Spectra hardplates, there you go. Standalone Spectra plates can stop rifle rounds with enough layers. It stops rounds via frictive braking (think of bullet brake). However, be advised there are some rounds that will penetrate UHMWPE plates, such as M855 green tip. So again, do your homework. AN EXAMPLE IS FOUND HERE:

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-32839.html

GREEN TIP M855 IS NOT IN THE SPEC FOR LEVEL III, SO DON'T ASSUME.

[Buffman]

Here's a budget level IV by RMA (#1145). I believe Shellback Tactical private labels the same plate

[d-r]

Back after a bit of a hiatus. Will be conducting testing of the Maingun 2 and several other steel plates this year.

[dwalker]

Back after a bit of a hiatus. Will be conducting testing of the Maingun 2 and several other steel plates this year.

Nice to have you back d-r. I have been wondering, what in your experience/opinion is the most up-to date technology in soft armor that can be worn under regular clothes and what are the effective ratings? Has there been any significant development of "concealable" soft armor with lightweight trauma plates?
It is very hard for someone just doing research online and in retail/vendor shops to get a good idea for what the "state of the art" is.

[d-r]

Nice to have you back d-r. I have been wondering, what in your experience/opinion is the most up-to date technology in soft armor that can be worn under regular clothes and what are the effective ratings? Has there been any significant development of "concealable" soft armor with lightweight trauma plates?
It is very hard for someone just doing research online and in retail/vendor shops to get a good idea for what the "state of the art" is.

Thanks for the kind words. Good to be back.

The current state of the art is 5th gen Wovenates, such as Kevlar XP and Twaron SB1. These do not exhibit the same failings as earlier laminates, such as Goldshield/Flex, and do not contain UHMWPE.

Great thread OP!

I'm not sure my body armor question belongs in this particular thread, but it is the same subject so here goes.

1. What concealable, flexible, light weight, soft body armor would you guys recommend for a business executive seeking protection from handguns?

2. What soft fabric materials and technological advances are you seeing in the body armor space?

1. I am not particularly impressed with most vendors right now. American Body Armor has a "No sales to civilians policy" which nixes them completely. If they reverse their policy, I would heartily recommend them, as they offer both 100% woven aramid vests and 5th gen Wovenate vests.

2. As posted above, the current state of the art in soft body armor is (IMHO) the 5th gen Wovenates such as Kevlar XP and Twaron SB1. Really outstanding materials by these companies. Since M5 is still vaporware at this juncture, these two materials are best practices, along with the tried and true 100% woven Aramid.

I have about three years worth of testing to do in less than a year, so will still be a bit sparse on here. But please post or message me. If I don't see your post, PM or email is best.

[Grakken]

bulletproofme.com

I am really interested in these plates. however it says NIJ 05 and i cant find much on that. Anyone decipher this or have experience with these? The price is per plate which is about the most i want to spend. Any help is much appreciated.

Looking athe medium sapi cut..most likley put in mayflower apc.

http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-3-PLUS-Ceramic.html

[Corpral_Agarn]

What does the hive know about SteelOps.com plates?

d-r?

[Buffman]

I am really interested in these plates. however it says NIJ 05 and i cant find much on that. Anyone decipher this or have experience with these? The price is per plate which is about the most i want to spend. Any help is much appreciated.

Looking athe medium sapi cut..most likley put in mayflower apc.

http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-3-PLUS-Ceramic.html

There is no NIJ 05, that I'm aware of. It was NIJ04, then NIJ06, at least from what I've read. Those plates are made by Armour Wear. I will tell you while their Level IV plate stopped M2AP, I was less than impressed with the overall construction and durability of their plate.

[vgman94]

This is how badass M80A1 is

No...But...No. I-I ....That's...That's impossible!!!!