Possibly free titanium stuff

[ziconceo]

Well I finally got to drawing and scanning the picture! is that everything youll need?

[Vertigofirearms]

870 MK1 bayonet copy.

[J.Galt]

Well I finally got to drawing and scanning the picture! is that everything youll need?

great work!

I need it 1:1 scale. That, or I need to know a very accurate dimension in it so I can scale it to 1:1 then trace it in solidworks.

Can you print it to a PDF, at 100% scale? And then PM me the PDF?

Or, could you very carefully and accurately draw two lines perpendicular to each other of a precise length on it somewhere? One line is probably enough but two would be nice. As accurate as possible, using a steel rule if possible. Or a ruler graduated in mm's.

Heres what I did today while I was waiting. My very own SIG P228 frame for my very own self! Not even close to being finished !

[ziconceo]

great work!

I need it 1:1 scale. That, or I need to know a very accurate dimension in it so I can scale it to 1:1 then trace it in solidworks.

Can you print it to a PDF, at 100% scale? And then PM me the PDF?

Or, could you very carefully and accurately draw two lines perpendicular to each other of a precise length on it somewhere? One line is probably enough but two would be nice. As accurate as possible, using a steel rule if possible. Or a ruler graduated in mm's.

Heres what I did today while I was waiting. My very own SIG P228 frame for my very own self! Not even close to being finished !

Thanks and no problem I'll get right to that.

Very cool! I'd love a Sig frame as well haha but I'm way too poor for that.

Sent from my unknown using Tapatalk

[bigcalidave]

Man I really need a CNC mill. That would take me forever to do on the manual...

Aluminum sig frames would be very nice to have, the ones we got in the group buy are all steel, and weigh a TON.
Are you using the prints and files from cncguns? You should really build your own STI frame next, they are much more useful than a sig!

[J.Galt]

Man I really need a CNC mill. That would take me forever to do on the manual...

Aluminum sig frames would be very nice to have, the ones we got in the group buy are all steel, and weigh a TON.
Are you using the prints and files from cncguns? You should really build your own STI frame next, they are much more useful than a sig!

yep Im using the cncguns P228 .iges file

i picked the sig for no real reason..it might not be the right one after all..id really like something with a super cheap parts kit that is widely available, and something that is on the roster so I feel a bit more comfortable with the "no one shall manufacture an unsafe" penal code. the sig P228 isnt on the roster and its also got some expensive and not so common remaining parts

[bigcalidave]

Your gun will not be a rostered gun. You really should ask these questions as you previously said you have no experience with guns. Any gun YOU make is your own gun, never the same as the roster version.

If you want to build a handgun, it will have to be initially built as a single shot only gun. ZERO magazine capacity (cnc a plastic solid magazine that doesn't allow any room for a round, disabled mag release to lock it in place) Overall length of at least 10.5 " and a minimum barrel length of 6" For the sig, I'd say you need a 7-8" barrel to be safe. You can get a cheap barrel and weld a tube extension onto it to reach the overall length requirement.

There are parts kits occasionally for the sigs, but they were a little tricky to find. Building a 1911 is easy, as there are thousands of choices for most parts. Also easy to build, AR15s, 10/22s

[bigcalidave]

After you initially build the gun, you can then remove the blocking parts and put a normal barrel in.

[J.Galt]

Your gun will not be a rostered gun. You really should ask these questions as you previously said you have no experience with guns. Any gun YOU make is your own gun, never the same as the roster version.

If you want to build a handgun, it will have to be initially built as a single shot only gun. ZERO magazine capacity (cnc a plastic solid magazine that doesn't allow any room for a round) Overall length of at least 10.5 " and a minimum barrel length of 6" For the sig, I'd say you need a 7-8" barrel to be safe. You can get a cheap barrel and weld a tube extension onto it to reach the overall length requirement.

There are parts kits occasionally for the sigs, but they were a little tricky to find. Building a 1911 is easy, as there are thousands of choices for most parts. Also easy to build, AR15s, 10/22s

After you initially build the gun, you can then remove the blocking parts and put a normal barrel in.

Meh...the legal opinions on this forum is just that, opinions. I have no reason to believe any one person than any other random person on here. The conflicting arguments are a mile deep.

For instance, I think the idea that I could manufacture a frame for a pistol that is intended to be semi-auto, add blocks or whatever to make it single shot, then "wait 10 seconds" and stare into the camera and say "now the manufacturing stops and the converting begins" is ridiculous and doesnt pass the smell test. There wouldn't even be any documentation that the SSE "state" was reached, or any logical milestone separating it from the "conversion" to semi auto. Same workshop. Same tools. Same day. Same me. Heck same hour. What is the logical argument that separates the manufacturing from the conversion?

Penal code 32000 (not sure if thats the latest number or not) "any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year."

I'm willing to concede that "manufacturing" whether or not its intended for sale ends up being arguably that which I'd be doing by machining a frame to completion. I'm not saying I like it, but its not that farfetched.

On the other hand, I dont see why manufacturing a frame that is exactly the same as a commercial design that is "on roster" would not allow it to be considered "on roster". Does it say somewhere that aftermarket components make your gun "off roster" because they weren't made by the original designer?

And really, all of the above is just amateur conjecture, just like all the other legal discussion on here. The overlords have successfully, whether by accident or not, obfuscated the law to the point where this topic is a grey area nobody has the answer to and there is no case law to support one thing or another yet.

I'm not sure there really is any legal way for me to end up with a semi-auto handgun that I machined, on roster or not. So I may just have to abort this whole process before what I'm making ceases to be a block of aluminum. Or make it fully machined, savor it for a day or so, then send it to the ATF as a prototype, to which it will be rejected and I'll never see it again, but it'll be legal right before I ship it.

[J.Galt]

The best argument I've seen so far is below. I'm not saying its cut and dry, I'm just saying its the best I've seen.

Basically "manufacturer" is defined as a for-profit activity in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(A).

And then the ATF uses that definition in their letter to Ames Armory.

That makes a compelling "amateur junk legal theory" that I'm totally in the free and clear by manufacturing a SIG P228 frame to completion. Or not. Who knows!

I believe the defining characteristic is the making of profit in exchange for services. Leasing would still fall under this.

I maintain that if the work was (actually) being done for free you are in the clear. It is not who owns the machines, it is the fact that money is changing hands. Without the exchange of money one does not meet the definition of a manufacturer as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(A).

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/921

From the above:
"The term "engaged in the business" means - (A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured"

Reading the cease and desist letter, especially paragraph 2 and 3 , is what leads me to this conclusion.
http://aresarmor.com/store/media/cms...and-desist.pdf

[ar15barrels]

On the other hand, I dont see why manufacturing a frame that is...

You need to read up on the legal terms "manufacturing" and "making" as they pertain to firearms.
"Manufacturing" is regulated.
"Making" is protected from regulation.

[J.Galt]

You need to read up on the legal terms "manufacturing" and "making" as they pertain to firearms.
"Manufacturing" is regulated.
"Making" is protected from regulation.

Doesn't mean much unless both are defined.

Federal defines "manufacturing" as for-profit in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(A), and backed up by the ATF using that same reference in the cease and desist letter to Ames Armory. So from that perspective the home builder is good to go if they arent selling it and its otherwise legal.

There isnt a California definition of "manufacturing" when it comes to firearms. However, California does refer to Federal law in both the zip gun definition and the unsafe handgun manufacturing law so perhaps they subscribe to the Federal definition. Who knows.

I've yet to see "Making" in California PC, I've only seen in in ATF docs.

[bigcalidave]

Meh...the legal opinions on this forum is just that, opinions. I have no reason to believe any one person than any other random person on here. The conflicting arguments are a mile deep.

Seriously, you are new here, so there will be a little slack. THIS FORUM is the reason so many people in California have AR-15s now, SSE handguns, the Bullet Button, and many other things. THIS FORUM is the reason many parts of the state started giving out concealed carry licenses. THIS FORUM has some of the most capable and knowledgeable members I've ever seen. You come here, you disrespect the forum, and you ignore advice given to you by people who have actually done the work and research. I'm really not sure why you are here. You can go on ar15.com, and troll all you want. Or, you could quit trolling, ask for help where needed and listen to the advice given to you.

[Edvil91]

Well I guess if you want to sell a product, how about make it appeal to one of the biggest markets out there. Everyone, almost, has an AR platform rifle. How about making a flashlight mount? Specifically an offset one.

The main problem with offset ones are that most are bulky and ugly. A nice one that is slim and good quality isn't cheap.

For example, i think that this one is nice:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/3281117379/gear-sector-offset-picatinny-rail-flashlight-mount-surefire-g2-series-1020-ring-diameter-ar-15-aluminum?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Daniel Defense makes nice ones too. No BS, just slim enough to function. However, the nice slim ones made out of aluminum may be too malleable, but TI could solve that issue.

I don't know much about the flashlights, but I've been looking into one for a long time...and I'll tell you, as a prospective customer, there is a lot of crap out there in the mounts market, and the good stuff costs a pretty penny because they have a famous logo on it.

What do you think?

[J.Galt]

Seriously, you are new here, so there will be a little slack. THIS FORUM is the reason so many people in California have AR-15s now, SSE handguns, the Bullet Button, and many other things. THIS FORUM is the reason many parts of the state started giving out concealed carry licenses. THIS FORUM has some of the most capable and knowledgeable members I've ever seen. You come here, you disrespect the forum, and you ignore advice given to you by people who have actually done the work and research. I'm really not sure why you are here. You can go on ar15.com, and troll all you want. Or, you could quit trolling, ask for help where needed and listen to the advice given to you.

Like I said. The legal opinions on this forum are just that, opinions. Are you suggesting otherwise? Whose advice I do or don't take is none of your concern.

So I guess I'll get back to working on that trigger guard for one friendly guy and that butt plate for that other friendly guy. Who knew this is what being a troll was all about.