Front Sight bound next week

[missiondude]

Kind of new here and I'm really not trying to offend anyone. But what is with people wanting to travel all the way to front sight to take training that hasn't evolved in YEARS when they have great local training available?

Why dont you tell us about the training classes you have taken locally including dates, costs, what was covered, who the training staff was, what their credentials were etc, then compare it to the classes you took at Front Sight, including all the above info. Tell us what you learned from each different instructor, and what was lacking at each class. I would like your input since you obviously have trained with many different instructors.

[JRV]

What did you add to this thread?

I believed I added my opinion, that had a question attached to it.

Forum: A meeting or medium where IDEAS and VIEWS on a particular issue can be exchanged.

[MossbergMan]

JRV, great question.
It's pretty much the formula that FS uses to teach students. Altough on the surface it seems that using the Cooper Modern Technique is "old fashioned" in the end isn't it all about aiming (sight alignment/sight picture) and trigger contol no matter your stance.

FS has evolved somewhat and they don't harange the Iso shooters anymore. In the 13 years I've been associated with FS both as a Range Master and now as a Student I have seen it move along with the times, sometimes slower than some would like, but they are open to new proven techniques.

Stuctured practice and attainable goals along with a"family" feeling among the students make FS a fun place to train.

Price point has something to do with FS's popularity...you can't beat their marketing. I couldn't possibily match training a student for 4 days for as little as $125 each. OMG it's a new offer every week, I know, but as you may have been able to see by FS students posts here....it's a social and fun event to go out there. Not to mention it's proximity to Lost Wages :-) (aka Las Vegas) Nevada, being a gun friendly state offeres benefits to out of state students (unlike CA.)

Is it for everybody? I think FS has something to offer just about every level of shooter. Should you exclude other training opportunities? No. Get different points of view from different organizations and instructors. IMO you'll learn something from everyone you train with, even if it's not how to do something.

Every national/international training facility has it's followers. Gunsight, Thunder Ranch, Sig Academy, Smith and Wesson Academy, Suarez International all have a devoted core of students, FS is no differnt.

So in a nut shell...attending Front Sight is fun and people like to have fun when learning.
I also suspect there's something in the water....

So come on out and enjoy 2 to 5 days of training and comradary. If you want certificate to get a sample of what we're talking about PM me and I can set you up.

[CDP45]

MossbergMan I think you drank the water!! No I am wrong. I know you drank the H20. Speaking of H20, you bringing it to Pala?

[JRV]

Why dont you tell us about the training classes you have taken locally including dates, costs, what was covered, who the training staff was, what their credentials were etc, then compare it to the classes you took at Front Sight, including all the above info. Tell us what you learned from each different instructor, and what was lacking at each class. I would like your input since you obviously have trained with many different instructors.

As far as what is local. I personally work and teach for a company who teaches Rob Pincus's Combat Focus Shooting. I was certified to teach CFS back in 2009 from Rob. Side note the CFS instructor development program has a 65% failure rate on certification. So unlike some/most instructor development courses you just don't pay money and get an instructor certificate.

Also since you were questioning what I know or don't know. I came from a state where I could actually carry everyday legally, have trained civilians, LEO going through the academy, LEO who are instructors for their agency, LEO who are team leaders, to active and ex military and been asked to come in to run SIM gun stuff with LEO for training scenarios for their department.

I have taken courses from some of the best instructors and some not so good.

The question was simple and wasn't attacking anyone or their beliefs. Any was simply asking why travel to take a course that hasn't evolved.

Things evolve for a reason, because if they don't they stay stagnate and die off.

[missiondude]

Mossberg-

Great response...

Are you taking master prep in Nov? I have shot with you at Iron Sights. I was considering a Fall master prep class as well.

[MossbergMan]

CDP45...it wan't H2O when I drank it..it was Gatorade...and you're the second to ask about Pala? I haven't heard Jack about the Memorial weekend event, so I haven't reserved a bay. It's not a done deal on my end, at least not yet. But I do plan on coming out and deploy some lead into the hillside, what happens afterwards, well that's up to the Oh Shoot crew.
Missondude, yes I plan on the full 4 day again in Nov. Weather should be a little cooler and I find the 4 day an excellent ramp up for Master testing.

[missiondude]

Was not questioning your training, since I do not know you or how much training you have had. You stated Front Sight uses dated methods, so I assumed you had been there, and I wanted your comparison of what was taught, who did the training, and a comparison of "bang for the training buck".

As far as what is local. I personally work and teach for a company who teaches Rob Pincus's Combat Focus Shooting. I was certified to teach CFS back in 2009 from Rob. Side note the CFS instructor development program has a 65% failure rate on certification. So unlike some/most instructor development courses you just don't pay money and get an instructor certificate.

Also since you were questioning what I know or don't know. I came from a state where I could actually carry everyday legally, have trained civilians, LEO going through the academy, LEO who are instructors for their agency, LEO who are team leaders, to active and ex military and been asked to come in to run SIM gun stuff with LEO for training scenarios for their department.

I have taken courses from some of the best instructors and some not so good.

The question was simple and wasn't attacking anyone or their beliefs. Any was simply asking why travel to take a course that hasn't evolved in 10+ years?

Things evolve for a reason, because if they don't they stay stagnate and die off.

[JRV]

JRV, great question.
It's pretty much the formula that FS uses to teach students. Altough on the surface it seems that using the Cooper Modern Technique is "old fashioned" in the end isn't it all about aiming (sight alignment/sight picture) and trigger contol no matter your stance.

FS has evolved somewhat and they don't harange the Iso shooters anymore. In the 13 years I've been associated with FS both as a Range Master and now as a Student I have seen it move along with the times, sometimes slower than some would like, but they are open to new proven techniques.

Stuctured practice and attainable goals along with a"family" feeling among the students make FS a fun place to train.

Price point has something to do with FS's popularity...you can't beat their marketing. I couldn't possibily match training a student for 4 days for as little as $125 each. OMG it's a new offer every week, I know, but as you may have been able to see by FS students posts here....it's a social and fun event to go out there. Not to mention it's proximity to Lost Wages :-) (aka Las Vegas) Nevada, being a gun friendly state offeres benefits to out of state students (unlike CA.)

Is it for everybody? I think FS has something to offer just about every level of shooter. Should you exclude other training opportunities? No. Get different points of view from different organizations and instructors. IMO you'll learn something from everyone you train with, even if it's not how to do something.

Every national/international training facility has it's followers. Gunsight, Thunder Ranch, Sig Academy, Smith and Wesson Academy, Suarez International all have a devoted core of students, FS is no differnt.

So in a nut shell...attending Front Sight is fun and people like to have fun when learning.
I also suspect there's something in the water....

So come on out and enjoy 2 to 5 days of training and comradary. If you want certificate to get a sample of what we're talking about PM me and I can set you up.

I appreciate your response and for being professional.

MossbergMan asked: in the end isn't it all about aiming (sight alignment/sight picture) and trigger contol no matter your stance?

This is where we disagree slightly. You don't always need a sight picture (of any kind) to get combat accurate hits.

[JRV]

Was not questioning your training, since I do not know you or how much training you have had. You stated Front Sight uses dated methods, so I assumed you had been there, and I wanted your comparison of what was taught, who did the training, and a comparison of "bang for the training buck".

No I have never been there. That being said I know enough people (students & instructors) who have attended their courses. Based on the feedback I've decided it really isn't my cup of tea.

[d4v0s]

As far as what is local. I personally work and teach for a company who teaches Rob Pincus's Combat Focus Shooting. I was certified to teach CFS back in 2009 from Rob. Side note the CFS instructor development program has a 65% failure rate on certification. So unlike some/most instructor development courses you just don't pay money and get an instructor certificate.

Also since you were questioning what I know or don't know. I came from a state where I could actually carry everyday legally, have trained civilians, LEO going through the academy, LEO who are instructors for their agency, LEO who are team leaders, to active and ex military and been asked to come in to run SIM gun stuff with LEO for training scenarios for their department.

I have taken courses from some of the best instructors and some not so good.

The question was simple and wasn't attacking anyone or their beliefs. Any was simply asking why travel to take a course that hasn't evolved.

Things evolve for a reason, because if they don't they stay stagnate and die off.

Forums are for the exchange of ideas. If you let us know we shouldnt be driving across the desert for training and we can get some locally.... should you not also tell us where to get the training?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Let us know where you think the training is locally that is as good or better than FS, I would be happy to give them a call as I want to start advancing my combat handgun skills.

You only have 5 posts here, but I will let you in on a little secret, we calgunners as a collective know almost anything, you will see threads on relationship advice, cigars, cars, trucks, motorcycles, and opinions of thousands of other topics. This is basically a digital mancave, I would be surprised if a calgunner knew about local training as good or better than FS or Gunsite and they didnt let the community know.

Welcome to the forum BTW, and just be open and honest about this training and your affiliation to it (salesmen tend to be crucified here when they pretend to be happy customers and vehemently push their snake oil) just as an FYI!

[JRV]

Forums are for the exchange of ideas. If you let us know we shouldnt be driving across the desert for training and we can get some locally.... should you not also tell us where to get the training?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Let us know where you think the training is locally that is as good or better than FS, I would be happy to give them a call as I want to start advancing my combat handgun skills.

You only have 5 posts here, but I will let you in on a little secret, we calgunners as a collective know almost anything, you will see threads on relationship advice, cigars, cars, trucks, motorcycles, and opinions of thousands of other topics. This is basically a digital mancave, I would be surprised if a calgunner knew about local training as good or better than FS or Gunsite and they didnt let the community know.

Welcome to the forum BTW, and just be open and honest about this training and your affiliation to it (salesmen tend to be crucified here when they pretend to be happy customers and vehemently push their snake oil) just as an FYI!

Thank you for the welcome.

Also I could be saying this or that on how to get into one of my classes I'm teaching or someone I know, but I'm not here for that. My first post on this forum clearly stated what I'm all about.

I asked the same question to a buddy in Utah, his response "because they were convenient to find info about." To me that isn't a valid answer.

[JRV]

After speaking with d4v0s I decided to post some more info. I didn't want to step on anyone's toes or play salesmen. That is not my intention.

for example of better training IMHO. Rob Pincus who developed the Combat Focus Shooting program http://www.combatfocusshooting.com will be in Ca this weekend teaching CFS at the Angeles Range hosted by 10X Defense http://www.10xdefense.com I'm not sure if that course is full but 10X has other CFS courses on the schedule.

I am 10X Defense's Lead Firearms Instructor. I'm also thinking of adding some other courses to our schedule, specifically some 1-day CFS courses at a discounted rate to Cal Guns members.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me or contact me at Jeff@10xhq.com

[MossbergMan]

I appreciate your response and for being professional.

MossbergMan asked: in the end isn't it all about aiming (sight alignment/sight picture) and trigger contol no matter your stance?

This is where we disagree slightly. You don't always need a sight picture (of any kind) to get combat accurate hits.

Oh we don't disagree, not at all. I know that use of the sights are not necessary at ranges out to 10 yards or so (more with practice) but we are "aiming" when we point shoulder shoot, we're just usng the entire gun as an aiming/pointing reference. At least that's been my experience.
There is a a "shooting or sighting continumum" that Suarez International uses that I am extremely fond of promoting.
I've only seen Rob's techniques on TV, but I like what I see and I understand where a true student of the gun should be proficient in target focus shooting too. But we all start somewhere and FS is a pretty good place.

Give me a PM and tell me about the company you train for, I'm always looking to broaden my horizions.

[gesundheit]

Welcome to Calguns. Now that you have posted about your firm, you've got to give us Calgun discount.