Front Sight Members Check In Here!

[DSMeyer]

So,I'm curious as to how the advance handgun class structure is going to change as to incorporate a skills test. Is it going to face right/left/rear,pivot, shoot a controlled pair on time? Shoot while on the move on time with hit/miss score? Proper use of palm strike step back proceedure? Are they going to score you in the simulator bays? Are they even going to have the sim bay shoots? I can see this chewing up a lot of time on day two.
I know that for the times I've taken adv HG, there were things I missed when in the sim bay, that students in the line got covered usually it was the different shooting positions, rollover prone and such.
Like I said, curious as to how it'll play out, chances are it'll have some serious growing pains and possibly be a major let down until they get the structure finalized

[steelciocc]

I don't remember all the exact details so I may not have this 100% correct but let me try to explain. The HCMP class is filled with skills tests. They have three levels of testing: Intermediate Handgun, Advanced Handgun, and the HCM. So you can G or DG these skills tests.

So if you "DG" the HCM skills test, you become a HCM. So if you talk about DG'ing HCMP, to me that is basically saying you accomplished becoming a HCM unless you specify a lower skills test.

To take the 2-day version of the HCMP class, you have to DG the Advanced Handgun skills test. So I assume the focus of the 2-day HCMP class will be almost entirely on the HCM skills test.

Hopefully that clears things up.

^^ This is correct. The "Advanced Handgun Skills Test" is given the afternoon of Day 2. If you DG it you can just do the 2-Day Master Prep thereafter.

That being said, you have to be quite good (and/or practice a lot just prior to the 2-Day) because you are shooting at Master speeds immediately. The beauty of the 4-Day is that you get to ramp up in speed from the basic test over two days.

Master Prep is the best course Front Sight does IMO even though they don't "teach" you anything new. If you can't pass the basic test somewhat easily you will be in over your head by the end of Day 1 though.

[AAShooter]

^^ This is correct. The "Advanced Handgun Skills Test" is given the afternoon of Day 2. If you DG it you can just do the 2-Day Master Prep thereafter.

That being said, you have to be quite good (and/or practice a lot just prior to the 2-Day) because you are shooting at Master speeds immediately. The beauty of the 4-Day is that you get to ramp up in speed from the basic test over two days.

Master Prep is the best course Front Sight does IMO even though they don't "teach" you anything new. If you can't pass the basic test somewhat easily you will be in over your head by the end of Day 1 though.

I am also very impressed with the Master Prep class. Your comments are spot on from my experience. Their ramping up process works very well. The 2-day HCMP class has got to be a wild first day.

[ke6guj]

FS has a flowchart of sorts: https://www.frontsight.com/pdf/class-requirments.pdf

so, are the 2D Advanced Rifle and shotgun classes no more and rolled into the combined 2D Advanced Long Gun Tactics class? So, now, if you had no desire to do advanced shotgun stuff and didn't see the need to go back to DG, you can't do any Advanced Rifle stuff where you do have a rifle DG?

[DSMeyer]

so, are the 2D Advanced Rifle and shotgun classes no more and rolled into the combined 2D Advanced Long Gun Tactics class? So, now, if you had no desire to do advanced shotgun stuff and didn't see the need to go back to DG, you can't do any Advanced Rifle stuff where you do have a rifle DG?

That's the way it appears. In order for you to take the advanced courses, you have to do them all and do them perfectly.
What really sucked was when I wanted to do adv rifle, I was struggling with DG for handgun, finally got DG and took the advance HG course, that weekend I did advanced HG was the same weekend they changed the requirements and made it to where you needed DG in everything to go up.

[waveslayer]

so, are the 2D Advanced Rifle and shotgun classes no more and rolled into the combined 2D Advanced Long Gun Tactics class? So, now, if you had no desire to do advanced shotgun stuff and didn't see the need to go back to DG, you can't do any Advanced Rifle stuff where you do have a rifle DG?

About 2 years ago Pizza boy changed everything because guys doing the advanced classes were holding up all the guys there that were advanced. Took up a lot of time and was annoying.
Then he figured out that anyone taking an advance class was already a member so when he offers these classes he gets $0 revenue all expenses.

That being said, that is why you don't see any Advanced Rifle, Shotgun, Uzi, etc.. l. Courses anymore, just Master prep. He would have major mutiny if he decreased the master prep classes.

You can email and ask John, if he is still there if they will offer any advanced classes besides handgun. They do it maybe once a year. Takes too much time and expenses to set up those classes... if he can't pay for Gatorade anymore he won't pay for the instructors.

If you have more questions pm me, I can fill you in.

[CaliforniaSerf]

Anyone signed up for the Two Day Handgun Skill Builder just before Thanksgiving on November 25-26? I'm flying in the Vegas the evening before and back Wednesday evening and wouldn't mind splitting the rental car if anyone is interested. PM me if so!

[Sleighter]

Well day 1 of 4DDH is finished. We had an ND today on my range during a "dry practice drill" that's a loud sound when everything else is going "click".

Also, everything after lunch and for the rest of the course is from concealment. So the only time you shoot from the open holster is the first morning. I didn't bring enough cover garments! I only planned on 2 days!

[Blackhorse2010]

Well day 1 of 4DDH is finished. We had an ND today on my range during a "dry practice drill" that's a loud sound when everything else is going "click".

Also, everything after lunch and for the rest of the course is from concealment. So the only time you shoot from the open holster is the first morning. I didn't bring enough cover garments! I only planned on 2 days!

I'll see you out there tomorrow depending on what range they assign me to.
Who's your RM?

[ke6guj]

Well day 1 of 4DDH is finished. We had an ND today on my range during a "dry practice drill" that's a loud sound when everything else is going "click".

and that is why I usually wear my ears all the time, even when they tell us we don't need them. I've stopped others from loading during dry practice, even had it happen myself when I thought I heard "firing drill" and my friend was there next to me to catch me before I went loud.

[beanz2]

About 2 years ago Pizza boy changed everything because guys doing the advanced classes were holding up all the guys there that were advanced. Took up a lot of time and was annoying.
Then he figured out that anyone taking an advance class was already a member so when he offers these classes he gets $0 revenue all expenses.

That being said, that is why you don't see any Advanced Rifle, Shotgun, Uzi, etc.. l. Courses anymore, just Master prep. He would have major mutiny if he decreased the master prep classes.

You can email and ask John, if he is still there if they will offer any advanced classes besides handgun. They do it maybe once a year. Takes too much time and expenses to set up those classes... if he can't pay for Gatorade anymore he won't pay for the instructors.

If you have more questions pm me, I can fill you in.

^^^ makes sense. After all, FS is a business, not some idealistic dojo where the only goal is to convert everyone to believe in 2A.

That being said, I personally wouldn't mind paying for advanced classes if I know I am getting the same FS quality instruction, a high instructor to student ratio (that we used to get at FS) and the same safety standards.

I'm not sure if the pay-as-you-go model is still possible for FS given that most of the students are life members who already expect the classes to be free.

Now, on the other hand, if some instructors decide to open up a continuing education school for FS students (you're reading this, Blackhorse? ) offering advanced level classes, they might just succeed in getting a lot of pent up business from frustrated FS students who now are not allowed to take those classes based on FS's multiple-platform prerequisites. Of course the students must agree to be tested first that they meet the minimum skills test, and those who fail can take remedial classes.

If IP is smart, he might even open up the "continuing ed" school himself (a la California Adventure next to Disneyland) offering pay-as-you-go classes. But I bet he'd fall into the same old pattern of offering some superlative-named lifetime smorgasbord membership into the 2nd school LOL

[waveslayer]

^^^ makes sense. After all, FS is a business, not some idealistic dojo where the only goal is to convert everyone to believe in 2A.

That being said, I personally wouldn't mind paying for advanced classes if I know I am getting the same FS quality instruction, a high instructor to student ratio (that we used to get at FS) and the same safety standards.

I'm not sure if the pay-as-you-go model is still possible for FS given that most of the students are life members who already expect the classes to be free.

Now, on the other hand, if some instructors decide to open up a continuing education school for FS students (you're reading this, Blackhorse? ) offering advanced level classes, they might just succeed in getting a lot of pent up business from frustrated FS students who now are not allowed to take those classes based on FS's multiple-platform prerequisites. Of course the students must agree to be tested first that they meet the minimum skills test, and those who fail can take remedial classes.

If IP is smart, he might even open up the "continuing ed" school himself (a la California Adventure next to Disneyland) offering pay-as-you-go classes. But I bet he'd fall into the same old pattern of offering some superlative-named lifetime smorgasbord membership into the 2nd school LOL

I agree 100%, I would pay for some advanced classes. That is the reason many of their top instructors have moved on. They now do it privately.

[Sleighter]

Front Sight Members Check In Here!

I'll see you out there tomorrow depending on what range they assign me to.

Who's your RM?

Maldonado is my RM and we're currently on 1D. I'm here alone so if love to work with another calgunner. My relay partner is new to guns and not paying attention to me while I shoot. I'd love better feedback.

[missiondude]

Maldonado is my RM and we're currently on 1D. I'm here alone so if love to work with another calgunner. My relay partner is new to guns and not paying attention to me while I shoot. I'd love better feedback.

Phil is one of the best. Is he still a member of the fitness protection program? He is all smiles and fun and games until someone screws up. He gets real serious real quick.

[bellwilliam]

Well day 1 of 4DDH is finished. We had an ND today on my range during a "dry practice drill" that's a loud sound when everything else is going "click!

That's nothing. In one of shotgun class I took. One of the instructor was demonstrating load a shell in front of sitting down students. He fired off a round into the wall to our right. I have a feeling the instructor is gone at end of day