RO QUESTION

[RaymondMillbrae]

Hey folks,

I have a quick question.

Lets say we are at a rifle match, the shooter had just finished his course of fire, and everyone is downrange scoring and patching-up the targets.

Now, while everyone is downrange, the next shooter (unbeknownst to anyone) got anxious and went to the stating point. While there, he started getting ready and LOADED A MAGAZINE INTO HIS BLACK RIFLE.

Of course, as soon as an RO saw that, he ran to the shooter and grabbed his weapon to ensure HE (the RO) had everything in control. The shooter got mad, and told the RO to never touch his weapon again. He told the RO that he should just "tell him" to unload and make safe...but not to touch his weapon.

Is the fact that he was locked and loaded, with other shooters down range, and without an RO giving him these commands, a DQable offence?

How would yall have handled it?

Just curious.

In Christ: Raymond

[uscbigdawg]

Without question it's a DQ'able offense (if using USPSA rules, see Rule 10.5.1) and he's lucky that he didn't get butt stroked to the face.

You handle (much less load) a firearm while someone is downrange and I'll not only DQ you, but do everything I can to suspend your basic privileges to that range because you failed basic gun handling even on a public line, much less on an action range.

Couple that with his crappy attitude and I'd push for banning from the range all together.

SAFETY IS NEVER TO BE COMPROMISED.

Rich

ETA: For IDPA see Rule S3, page 7 of the rulebook
For Chabot Gun Club, 3-Gun matches rules/guidelines, see Page 3.

[foxtrotuniformlima]

Without question it's a DQ'able offense and he's lucky that he didn't get butt stroked to the face.

You handle (much less load) a firearm while someone is downrange and I'll not only DQ you, but do everything I can to suspend your basic privileges to that range because you failed gun handling even on a public line, much less on an action range.

Couple that with his crappy attitude and I'd push for banning from the range all together.

SAFETY IS NEVER TO BE COMPROMISED.

Rich

What Rich said.

[j411701]

+1000

[Voo]

absolutely DQable.. and with that kind of attitude.. a ban from the range might be warranted..

[Gryff]

Without a doubt that is a DQ'able offense. If it had happened at Richmond and I was the RO, I would have reported it to the Action Range Committee with the recommendation that the shooter should not be allowed to compete again until he has passed an Introduction to Competitive Shooting course.

But grabbing his gun away from him? That's hard to say without having been there. An RO has to be prepared to physically take control of a shooter should there be an egregious safety violation that it clearly endangering other people. But he should not touch a competitor's weapon otherwise unless, a) the competitor is in possession of the weapon and acknowledges that the RO is going to take control, or b) the weapon is loose (i.e. dropped). It's just not a good idea to yank a gun away from someone, but a loaded weapon behind the other competitors needs to be dealt with immediately. I'd have to be there to make the call.

[joelogic]

I can go either way with grabbing the weapon but I would back that RO any day of the week for keeping me safe.

[Mstrty]

Please tell me he was immediately escorted off the range.

[D-Man]

DQ and the RSO handled it appropriately.

[RaymondMillbrae]

I was one of the guys helping with the scoring, but I didn't actually see the mishap.

One of the other RO's (there were 3 of us), actually saw it, and grabbed the weapon. The shooter had the weapon slung, so it was not physically taken from him - but the RO did grab it to prevent any further movement from the shooter.

When the RO made the sudden move towards the shooter, it caught my attention...and that is when I got into the fray of things.

I tried to calm the situation down, as the shooter was really emphasizing the fact that "no one should touch his weapon". I made it very clear to him that we had the power to stop any unsafe act, by any means, that jeapordizes the safety of any shooter on the range. I also mentioned that if pressed further, he could be DQed for safety reasons.

In the end, he finished the course.

I spoke to him a few times later that afternoon - reemphasizing to him the seriousness of what he had done, and how safety was paramount.

He seemed to be pretty new to all this, and it kind of reemphasized to me the fact that there should be some type of "proof" that a firearm safety class was taken - especially during a multi-gun match.

Bottom line, I learned something invaluable from this thread. I will now have a much better idea of how to handle something like this in the future.

For that, "Thank You"!

In Christ: Raymond

[uscbigdawg]

Maybe you should attend a RO course so YOU'VE got a better understanding of match rules in general. The USPSA/NROI and IDPA/SO courses are both very well run and not only make you more able to deal with these situations with correct info, but also makes you a better competitor.

Rich

[RaymondMillbrae]

Maybe you should attend a RO course so YOU'VE got a better understanding of match rules in general. The USPSA/NROI and IDPA/SO courses are both very well run and not only make you more able to deal with these situations with correct info, but also makes you a better competitor.

Rich

Waaaaaaay ahead of you, brother.

Now that I have started shooting competitively, I am also looking at furthering my own range "edu-ma-cashum".

I was squadded with Todd C a while back, and it crushed me to hear a comment he made during the match. It went something like this:


KINDAQUOTE: "It was a little frustrating being one, of only two ROs, for our squad. It meant that we needed to keep time, keep score, and keep an eye-out for safety...so we never got a chance to relax and mentally run the stage before we actually shot".


That statement hit home. At that moment, at that VERY moment, I took it upon myself to train myself and learn everything I could about scoring, range safety, and other matters related to running a range...so that other shooters can also SAFELY enjoy the sport/training. We should ALL share the burden. Like my Pastor once told me, "Why is it that the same 20% of the people are always doing 80% of the work"?

Anyhoo...enough psycho-babble. Hopefully I'm headed in the right direction.

In Christ: Raymond

[joelogic]

You should have asked the person to leave. One time a shooter swept us with a hot gun and we made sure he left. The Chabot webpage says Multi Gun is not for beginners and if you have shot single gun before and are ready to try multi we ask you to shoot with the MD. We all should make it our responsibility to keep each other safe.

[Wulf]

I'm with Dawg on the DQ. That's no brainer'est of no-brainer DQs.

As far as the grab....

If the muzzle was in a direction that I was sure was a 100% safe direction (basically sky, nearby berm/wall, or ground within a few feet of the shooters feet), I would take control of the muzzle and maintain control till the range was cleared. A sudden grab could cause a person to have a sympathetic grip contraction and could precipitate a discharge, So if the muzzle was actually pointed at someone or where someone could easily have been, I'd issue a stop or a freeze, then step in where I could communicate further and control the muzzle in some cooperative fashion.

[HighLander51]

In the end, he finished the course.????

NO!!! Absolutely NOT! GO HOME, STAY HOME, DON'T COME BACK UNTIL YOU CAN UNDERSTAND SIMPLE RANGE COMMANDS, PERIOD!!!!

When I ran matches, I covered everyone in the staff with 'Event Liability Insurance' about $450 a year. Ask to see if you are covered as an RO, demand to see the policy in writing, if not, be prepared to be sued and loose your home to some FOOL that loaded behind the line.

Touch the weapon? MY ***! I have ripped the weapon out of their hands to protect my staff. Taken the bolt/carrier out, and told them they could pick it up at a know local gun store.