*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[Divehobo]

This^^

[Supersapper]

All I can say is that if all existing members, maybe commander or, higher could pay $100 a year for membership, I'd be down. (somebody said this would bring in ~$26M) Year after year, this should be plenty of money.

Anyone lower than commander would pay a little more. And more and more if you're lower but, not more than $300 a year.

If you're brand new, well, I feel sorry for you.

The$26M general figure came from me, but that was based on EVERY membership contributing $100 per year. No tiers or "lower levels paying more". That is mainly because some paid fully for their high memberships, and some paid $100-$400 or so for theirs.

To the naysayers saying that they have this free lifetime membership, yet say that they will sue to keep doing it for free:

I state for the record what he did was not right. What he did was dumb and there is no way that this was not a Ponzi scheme of sorts. His restructuring fee schedule was ludicrous and guaranteed to finish FS for good if enacted.

But does anyone seriously expect that FS can continue if everyone gets exactly what he promised? NO. FS will die a relatively quick, but very painful death. Some free while some pay? How is that different from what Dr. P did?

This is why $100 per year across the board is fair, but it comes with a caveat: Dr. Piazza MUST step down, give up control and voting rights. A reasonable retirement because he founded the place, but he gets nothing further from it.

If the "Foundation" that I suggested in other posts is established, and through proper long term investment and capital growth through a recognized, licensed and established financial firm, grows in value so that it becomes self-sustaining, then...only then...should the Council of FrontSight (I use that term for lack of a better one...no one person will control FS from now on) even consider removing the $100 fee.

If you're worried about the instructors and staff during the growth of the Foundation to self sustaining status, then take it from the funds generated and it will just take a little longer to build. The math is VERY EASY:

Total expenses to run FS for 1 year = X
Foundation yearly contributions to build for self sustainment= Y
Number of memberships = 263,322 (from the email)
NOTE: Should not take more than 4 - 5 years to achieve self sufficiency

(X + Y) / 263,322 = $$ per member per year

Oh...BTW: transparency is key: Show us the books publicly. Show Dr. P out of power and publish controlling agency.

This is just an idea...it can be fleshed out, of course, but if you think that suing FS for whatever you put into it is going to yield anything, all he has to do is file BK and you will get nothing. Why send it to its death when all we need are a few fixes? And yes...everyone gives up a little money to keep it solvent.

I do want to address those that think there is anything free in life...come on: you're all adults. You KNEW that wasn't going to stand and a court is not going to give that to you or us. The only thing we'll get is FS going under and at that point...none of us have anything. You can argue that it is exactly what you paid for, but that would be a specious and stupid argument. Those of you who paid 4 and 5 figures for your membership should be getting behind this type of change rather than demanding this "free for life" thing Iggy knew he could not sustain. Many have gone multiple times, so you folks got your money's worth. I didn't pay 5 figures for mine, but I also haven't gone much. I got my money's worth and $100 year is an exceedingly good value to keep what I have. If you paid 5 figures and just never made the time to go, then that's on you. Sorry...cold hard fact.

[SG29736]

Some people would draw the line at the point of not supporting a con man who has ripped others off repeatedly even if they themselves feel they have not been ripped off. Because they wouldn't have received their deal without the others being conned. This is similar to the concept of playing sports building character in people. It actually only reveals it.

[Citizen_B]

Some people would draw the line at the point of not supporting a con man who has ripped others off repeatedly even if they themselves feel they have not been ripped off. Because they wouldn't have received their deal without the others being conned. This is similar to the concept of playing sports building character in people. It actually only reveals it.

[w00dmaster]

If a friend said they were considering doing business with an outfit with FS track record you'd advise them to go for it? Why are there so many discussions about this or that gunstore who operates in a dishonest way and so many people will emphatically proclaim that, by god, they'd never do business with them on general moral principles. Why do those principles disappear when it comes to doing business with FS? It just demonstrates where some people draw the line I guess.

Thats what I cannot understand either, me and all the others who paid thousands into FS for lifetime memberships years ago built FS. You who bought $100 life time memberships did not. But the attitude from the hundred buckers is I got my moneys worth so I do not care who got screwed? This is antisocial at the least and really sad to me. So you still have to pay the $50 month and $75 a day per person Husband/wife or how about a family of 4 or 6 how much will cost? But the real deal this is not what we signed up for. We were swindled by a liar in chief. I would suggest you not say that you do not care because you got your any more on this thread because you will get berated for saying that as you should.

[-hanko]

Thats what I cannot understand either, me and all the others who paid thousands into FS for lifetime memberships years ago built FS. You who bought $100 life time memberships did not. But the attitude from the hundred buckers is I got my moneys worth so I do not care who got screwed? This is antisocial at the least and really sad to me. So you still have to pay the $50 month and $75 a day per person Husband/wife or how about a family of 4 or 6 how much will cost? But the real deal this is not what we signed up for. We were swindled by a liar in chief. I would suggest you not say that you do not care because you got your any more on this thread because you will get berated for saying that as you should.

We were definitely deceived by THE liar in chief. That said, is it logical to keep Pizza going?

If you say "yes", I'll assume that you think Pizza has changed his stripes, and that's not possible. He's been a liar and psychotic leader since he started FS in California...read up a little more on Scientology and how it works.

[Diverrick_2000]

Survey

The recent survey questions are leading and can result in the desired responses that can be manipulate. Not a good survey to see input from the members.

[Citizen_B]

The recent survey questions are leading and can result in the desired responses that can be manipulate. Not a good survey to see input from the members.

[NorthBay Shooter]

For me it's a couple of things:
First lifetime membership and attend any class now or in the future free of charge. This is a contract that is valid at the time it is issued. Think about places like Dillon Precision, or Leupold or STI firearms. They have lifetime warranties. I had an issue with a Leupold Delta Point and I sent it back to be fixed 4 times. No charge, they just fix it. Same for Dillon. Have an issue they send you the part, free. STI was that way with their guns. Now they have changed it. They no longer offer lifetime warranty. Buy something from them now, limited warranty. Have something from before, you are covered. That is what FS should be doing. If they want to change the terms, do it on anything new. New memberships, new terms. In regards to the other stuff, his range his rules. They always made you shoot factory in handguns, now they are just saying you have to buy from them. You are a captive at the range. No choice, pay the price. The crazy prices at the Pro Shop. Same thing.

Second, I have a hard time saying this, but if you believe what survey 1 said, only 91k actually paid for a membership. It is most likely true. I know I have given away my share of free memberships. Again, this is not my problem. He gave them to me to do what I wanted. If he wants a transfer fee on any future memberships, great. But not the ones currently in my account.

Also from survey 1, that he is spending 2M of his money to keep it running. Not my problem. That is what business owners do every day if their business is losing money and they want to keep it. I own my company. If I don't make money, it's my fault, not my customers. If I need to raise my prices I do it on new deals, not those that are currently underway. I also don't tell my customers, if they don't pay the new price, I am going to take back everything I did.

I personally am not going to pay another dime. If he wants my $50 background fee, sure, no problem. Here is 50 points.

If FS dies, then so be it. It will come back as something else. There is value for a shooting range there and there is a way to make money with it. It is just not the Piazza way.

[PogoJack]

*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

I have obtained a preview of surveys #2, #3, #4 and #5.



I wonder if I can still claim my Uzi Fun Gun (2 magazines)?

[w00dmaster]

Yes any who knew what they were doing was wrong and/or profiting from Iggy and his Ponzi scheme. Yes. IMHO but I am a Christian and believe in the bible as the true word of God. I am sure they did tell them just ignore the scams and lies just get your use. Because they all know that FS was built by US (we who paid thousands) not they who paid a hundred bucks. Its a matter of standing by and watching a whole group of people got screwed. Pretty sure from a moral stand point that would never be right unless you are in fact not moral as well. IMHO

[LCU1670]

New: gold star supplement

[SG29736]

How many other businesses that you know are run by a shady con artist do you willfully try to get your family or friends involved with? I betting the number is 0. I don't believe that all FS members are morally corrupt in their daily lives. But many are willing to choose to bend their normally more stringent standards for cheap training at FS. They won't do that for other flim flam businesses but make an exception for FS. I

[w00dmaster]

How many other businesses that you know are run by a shady con artist do you willfully try to get your family or friends involved with? I betting the number is 0. I don't believe that all FS members are morally corrupt in their daily lives. But many are willing to choose to bend their normally more stringent standards for cheap training at FS. They won't do that for other flim flam businesses but make an exception for FS. I

Well put!!!!

[Fastattack]

Gee, after reading this thread, I'd feel dirty going back there at this point.

For those who spent thousands for their memberships, I don't blame you for being pissed. I got my money's worth at this point and think it's time to part ways. I may go back if he cleans up his act, which is doubtful.