*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[dok]

Vinnie-how did u acquire front sight bucks?

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Vinnie-how did u acquire front sight bucks?

They "refunded" me the amount for the 1911 that I was promised when I upgraded to a Knight but never received in the amount of $545. Then had another $500 added to my account as some sort of a warrior or loyalty bonus or some crap like that. I'll use that for ammo for the crepitate we had previously scheduled and then GTFO.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Has anyone gotten any questions answered? Has anyone been able to speak with anyone at frontsight?

I wrote them a lengthy email asking questions the morning the initial restructuring email came out, but no replies yet. I'm sure they are getting pummeled with emails and phone calls. gOing to take a day or two before I call.

[xSlapshotx]

My good friend and I joined with a $250 commitment to see what it was like. For our $250 we got a 2 day handgun class and a “free” Hawk shotgun. I figured I couldn’t loose. Of course that was to get me in the door and on the email list!
But our 2 day class went well and we both upgraded to full memberships.

Since then we’ve gone once or twice a year and brought in probably 10 friends and family. Last year we had a group of 14 take the 4Dhandgun class and had a great time! 3 of us brought our sons, truly great bonding.
We were supposed to go in April and do it again but that seems unlikely.

Now my account shows 1FScoin and zero FS$. I thought I had a couple of thousand “pizza bucks” before all of this. WTF? Do you have to pay with real money before they put any FS$ in your account?

I know it takes money to run a business. All of this pyramid scheme marketing over the years has actually been a turn off. I’d actually be OK with a per class charge but I’m not paying $500 a year just to maintain my membership.

I’m kinda sad because I’ve enjoyed my classes that I’ve taken there. Pahrump is going to loose a lot of money if FS goes belly up.

[F-2_Challenger]

Has anyone gotten any questions answered? Has anyone been able to speak with anyone at frontsight?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I talked to them on Saturday morning right after I read a post here and found out about it. Somehow I had not been receiving his emails. So I got that turned back on. I hadn't read the Email yet so I didn't know the extent of this Edict!

After I read that annoyingly long email I was smokin' hot! Called my Bro and some friends and spread the word.

All the people on here that I urged to go to classes there jumped right in and pissed down my leg. Said, "I told you so," and called me names.

Over whelming response to this has been FU Piazza!

Right now, if I go to my next class it will cost me well over $2000 for the whole trip. Food, Lodging, Gas, Fees, and Ammo. That's for 2 days of Shotgun adn 2 days of Pistol. They will cut the round count down considerably to make it less painful ammo wise, and I know that because they did it last year in my Rifle and Pistol classes in May.

Before I would have bought ammo from Walmart in Las Vegas for < $100 for both classes. stayed at My Bros house in Vegas for free, and cost me $150 for fuel.
Now my Bro is quitting and not going so I would have to stay in a hotel which is $150 per night easy.

But my biggest question is how he plans ion dealing with the Class Action Suit that is coming for Breach of Contract. IE Reneging on the "Lifetime Memberships" he sold ? There will easily be 10,000 people who sign on to that,,, Myself included!

Lots of people have seen how I can promote this place and sell it efficiently. Got news for you, I can go negative just as well! And when you F$%^ me, I don't sit still and let you keep doing it.

I got an apology email last night from him apologizing for his tone and for blaming us for not supporting him to the desired level. And it was almost as long as the first one.

But nowhere in it did I see any "Personal Responsibility for his Mistakes!" For getting himself into this predicament in the first place.! All there was were Explanations/Justifications for the Fees which were covered in the first email and not changed.

I have seen one thing with this guy for a long time. He oversells everything, and doesn't know how to close a deal. He could have stated his case in one or two pages in the first Email and not pissed nearly as many people off. I think he basically called the Shyster an "*******" 5 times when one would have been enough. He went over his Exchange in Abundance several times when it was not needed and was only being used as a 'Justification" for his actions now.

The whole problem here is that he has spent all the money he has borrowed to run the place and used the site as collateral for those loans. Now he's got his back against the wall, and is desperate.

Questions I have? :

Why don't you sell the place to the richest members, and there are many. Both Trump Boys are members and could easily buy him out. They could incorporate the place and install a real Corporate Board of Directors that would run the place, and vote on changes and policies. He could have a seat on the board but would not have a title. Brad and a few others could also be on the board, but they could not assemble a controlling voting block, mainly because they are partially responsible for the current situation as well.

All memberships would be converted to Shares of Common Stock based on the level of your membership. Those shares could be traded and an initial IPO put out to raise capitol for running the place. Front Sight would become a Publicly Traded Commodity.

However all litigation against him would have to be settled before he could do that.

Let me know if you think this could be a workable solution?

Randy

[Manofmayhem]

FS definitely needs a board and Piazza should go. I appreciate my time and training there and was looking forward to taking my kids when they were old enough. I have 7 Founder's memberships TBD and one Patriot, all with the hope that family would attend (I bought when single and now have said family). I feel betrayed and Piazza is a dream crusher. I hope this is another email scheme since I can't wrap my head around the legal issues he's opening himself to.

[picone]

I know it takes money to run a business. All of this pyramid scheme marketing over the years has actually been a turn off. I’d actually be OK with a per class charge but I’m not paying $500 a year just to maintain my membership.

For nearly every member I know, it's not just $600/yr. You have to maintain all your family's memberships too. That's the whole point is going with your friends and family. It would be crazy to pay the membership fee's right now. Who knows what that place will look like in a couple months. They've already started removing classes and it's rumored that some of the FS management only wants to keep the 3 main intro classes and get rid of the rest. I have zero interest maintaining a bunch of memberships just to take 4 day HG/rifle/shotgun class.

If the finances didn't support the facility and they were forced to go BK, then restructure, I might be willing to understand. But to just take every member benefit away is beyond bad faith and I don't know why anyone would expect them to honor any new commitments they make.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I really wouldn't have minded spending $600/year to maintain my membership. I have been out there about 3 times a year, so that still would have made it a fantastic value. Even if I only went once a year and took a 4-day class it would have been a great deal. Heck, many people spend that much or more for a gym membership that they never use.

But all the other added fees and new policies and continued shady practices mean no more for me.

[Doctor_Chicago]

I talked to them on Saturday morning right after I read a post here and found out about it. Somehow I had not been receiving his emails. So I got that turned back on. I hadn't read the Email yet so I didn't know the extent of this Edict!

After I read that annoyingly long email I was smokin' hot! Called my Bro and some friends and spread the word.

All the people on here that I urged to go to classes there jumped right in and pissed down my leg. Said, "I told you so," and called me names.

Over whelming response to this has been FU Piazza!

Right now, if I go to my next class it will cost me well over $2000 for the whole trip. Food, Lodging, Gas, Fees, and Ammo. That's for 2 days of Shotgun adn 2 days of Pistol. They will cut the round count down considerably to make it less painful ammo wise, and I know that because they did it last year in my Rifle and Pistol classes in May.

Before I would have bought ammo from Walmart in Las Vegas for < $100 for both classes. stayed at My Bros house in Vegas for free, and cost me $150 for fuel.
Now my Bro is quitting and not going so I would have to stay in a hotel which is $150 per night easy.

But my biggest question is how he plans ion dealing with the Class Action Suit that is coming for Breach of Contract. IE Reneging on the "Lifetime Memberships" he sold ? There will easily be 10,000 people who sign on to that,,, Myself included!

Lots of people have seen how I can promote this place and sell it efficiently. Got news for you, I can go negative just as well! And when you F$%^ me, I don't sit still and let you keep doing it.

I got an apology email last night from him apologizing for his tone and for blaming us for not supporting him to the desired level. And it was almost as long as the first one.

But nowhere in it did I see any "Personal Responsibility for his Mistakes!" For getting himself into this predicament in the first place.! All there was were Explanations/Justifications for the Fees which were covered in the first email and not changed.

I have seen one thing with this guy for a long time. He oversells everything, and doesn't know how to close a deal. He could have stated his case in one or two pages in the first Email and not pissed nearly as many people off. I think he basically called the Shyster an "*******" 5 times when one would have been enough. He went over his Exchange in Abundance several times when it was not needed and was only being used as a 'Justification" for his actions now.

The whole problem here is that he has spent all the money he has borrowed to run the place and used the site as collateral for those loans. Now he's got his back against the wall, and is desperate.

Questions I have? :

Why don't you sell the place to the richest members, and there are many. Both Trump Boys are members and could easily buy him out. They could incorporate the place and install a real Corporate Board of Directors that would run the place, and vote on changes and policies. He could have a seat on the board but would not have a title. Brad and a few others could also be on the board, but they could not assemble a controlling voting block, mainly because they are partially responsible for the current situation as well.

All memberships would be converted to Shares of Common Stock based on the level of your membership. Those shares could be traded and an initial IPO put out to raise capitol for running the place. Front Sight would become a Publicly Traded Commodity.

However all litigation against him would have to be settled before he could do that.

Let me know if you think this could be a workable solution?


Randy

It is kind of the End Game that we are trying to Organize over on Facebook Lawsuit.

[NorthBay Shooter]

One of the things that concerns me is if I need to maintain my membership in order to maintain my ability to sue. I feel like nothing is going to happen until he cleans house on Mar 1st. Everyone who didn't pay would be gone. At that point something may happen.

I can imagine an email saying something you are still hear and one of my most valued members..... then an offer.

I also think it is going to take sometime for a lawsuit to actually spin up and to try and define the class for a class action.

[tanksoldier]

I'll preface this by saying, I'm a police officer and Piazza is no different that the subjects I contact constantly, who do something stupid but think it's my fault they are in trouble.

Just for that reason alone, I won't be continuing my membership under the new rules.

I've attended a few courses on certificates from Ebay, and was gifted a Commander-level membership from one of the people I bought a certificate from.

Once per year I would take two weeks off, take two four day courses, and spend time in Vegas in between.

The only money Front Sight saw from any of that was the $50 background checks and the $60 sunglasses I bought at the pro shop once, because I stepped on mine.

From the beginning I've believed his business model was unsustainable: He's been giving away his means to make money to other people.

Imagine if Ford gave people who bought Fords the ability to give away or sell Fords to other people... without even giving Ford a cut... but Ford still had to build the car.

The training is OK, a bit outdated but fine for the vast majority of people... better than the training most gun owners get, which is none. It's sad that an easily accessible and inexpensive (if done intelligently) source of training is going to disappear, but he did it to himself.

I won't be paying the new fees, and I agree this is likely a scheme to wring as much cash out of members as possible before bankruptcy.

[dok]

My understanding is that "front sight coin" has no current value-that is he will create future value but as of yet it cant be used for anything.Does anyone have information to the contrary?

[beanz2]

The “rules” have changed three times since Saturday. Not huge, but incrementally. The deadline for me is 2/28 when the membership maintenance fee has to be paid or I lose it all.

I’ll keep my finger on the pulse and make a decision much closer to the date.

On the one hand, I’ve lost any trust in Piazza that he’d stick to his promises. On the other, I want to see the school survive the calamity and the good instructors keep their jobs.

[Sam1234]

One of the things that concerns me is if I need to maintain my membership in order to maintain my ability to sue. I feel like nothing is going to happen until he cleans house on Mar 1st. Everyone who didn't pay would be gone. At that point something may happen.

I can imagine an email saying something you are still hear and one of my most valued members..... then an offer.

I also think it is going to take sometime for a lawsuit to actually spin up and to try and define the class for a class action.

My position is simple. The good DR does not have the legal right to unilaterally change the terms, or conditions of a contract. His attempt or statements that he is has changed the contract and anyone who does not agree looses their membership is not legally valid, therefore my membership and contract are still valid. PERIOD!

It is my belief that should you decide for whatever reason to start paying the maintenance fees you will have agreed to his right to change the contract and you have entered into a new contract with Front Sight accepting all the new terms and conditions. I think I read that part of the new terms is he has the right to change the contract terms and conditions at any time. I believe that while you may gain some short term benefits with a last class you will loose in the long run.