Down the rabbit hole for a beginner

[Kwikvette]

At what distance did you hit that .34" group?

Thought I answered that in post 27

100 yards.

[RiskyBusiness]

Thought I answered that in post 27

100 yards.

no you only said 77gr

good shooting, will you be loading 69,75,80gr bullets mainly?

[Kwikvette]

no you only said 77gr

good shooting, will you be loading 69,75,80gr bullets mainly?

Oh I know, hence the face palm for my fail post

I've only used Hornady TAP (75gr), IMI Razorcore (77gr), Peak Performance (75gr) and Black Hills reman. (77gr).

I'll have to dig out my targets but I would shoot 10 5-shot groups (5 per paper target) and my groups were -

+/- 1" with the Hornady
+/- .8" with IMI
+/- .6" with Black Hills
+/- .8" with Peak Performance

What I found interesting is, in each group shot using Peak Performance, 4 rounds would create a group of just over a quarter inch. The 5th was always a flier which translated to double the group size. It happened multiple times so I'm not sure if it was me or the ammunition (since it's inexpensive anyway).

I ordered 1,000 rounds of it and may use it up when I head to LA to shoot at the range next month.

To answer your question, mainly 75gr-77gr since I assume that's what 2 of my rifles like best. I haven't shot my 2 bolt guns chambered in .223 but I find them boring anyway.

[hambam105]

Coaxial is the most unorthodox, but it is my next press to buy.

Redding Big Boss 2 can't go wrong. Redding still makes their presses in the U.S. which is more than I can say for RCBS.

I don't see how Lee can claim to make a robust press for less money than Redding charges. Lee is all about price-point and 'we will be glad to send you the parts when...' And that is fine, thousands of guys are happy with Lee, but if you only have one press and that press lays down for what ever reason then no reloading for you until the UPS man shows up.

Don't go cheap on the up front costs of reloading, otherwise you buy twice, or 3 times or 4 times....

[stilly]

Well if you are expecting a catastrophic failure then you will be waiting for UPS no matter what. Even Dillon will not send out a major part without proof or return of the part that was broken. And by major I mean something big. Maybe the RAM they might, but the frame... And I am sure that Lee would do the same- however, I have not seen an LCC break like I have seen a Dillon break. Heh. I do not ever think you will see a Lee break that way. AND if you are thinking it will break, why not put together some spare parts in a kit ahead of time? Because of all the people *****ing and moaning about a certain little black square on the LCT, I went out and bought 2 extra JIC. They are STILL in the bags in the drawer. Now for the Loadmaster I have a few extra parts. AND I have had to dip into those parts once or twice for the pawl and o-ring. But then again, minor parts... And since the press ONLY puts out about 700+ rph I aint worried too much about it since I only paid $150 for the press in 9mm and then bought some fancy upgrades for about $50 more...

[eric n]

I apologize for being Debbie Downer but.... Consistent 1/4" groups from an AR is asking a lot. Your dies and press are a small part of accuracy.
I am in no way dissuading you from reloading, your groups will most likely shrink and stay consistent. Hopefully, you enjoy it as it is a relaxing hobby but unrealistic expectations make for frustration.
Good luck in your decisions, welcome to the madness.

[17+1]

Start with a lee kit if you want to save money. If you have a little more cash to spend, go for a rock chucker kit. Both of these presses will handle 223 and 308, and will load MOA ammo if you know what you're doing.

Forget about the fancy pants presses and progressives for now. You need practice in basic reloading principles.

[17+1]

I apologize for being Debbie Downer but.... Consistent 1/4" groups from an AR is asking a lot. Your dies and press are a small part of accuracy.
I am in no way dissuading you from reloading, your groups will most likely shrink and stay consistent. Hopefully, you enjoy it as it is a relaxing hobby but unrealistic expectations make for frustration.
Good luck in your decisions, welcome to the madness.

Cherry picked 3 shot groups, common in the gun world.

They should instead load a mag and shoot 10-20 rounds in succession. Then we'll see how that semi auto military rifle really runs.

[noylj]

Read a few manuals and read them again.

>I've got the jest (sorry, but: jest, a thing said or done for amusement; a joke; gist, the substance or essence of a speech or text) of reloading/etc. so I'll make it easier for you guys to help me out here -

>Who is considered as making some of the best single stage presses available?

Arbor press and custom dies that match your rifle's chamber (see Wilson). Forster Co-Ax is my first and last choice for single-stage press; however, they are all more than good enough and you'll make ammunition just as accurate with a Lee Challenger press.

>Dies are the real heart of a reloading setup, so I'd also want to know who makes the best dies as well IE Lee's, RCBS, etc.

No, they really aren't until you get those hand-made custom dies that match your chamber.
Lee has won benchrest and long-distance matches, but most like some other feature of some other die.
If shooting bolt action, you need a full length size die, you will probably want a neck-only sizing die, and a seating die.
If shooting semi-auto, you need a full length size die (of any make) and a seating die (here, a special match seating die with cut-out for placing the bullet in the die might help). I adjust the sizing die until all cases just chamber and I get a custom seating plug that actually FITS the bullet I am using and does not touch the meplat at all.
Beyond that, you will want a bullet run-out tool that will let you "adjust" the bullet to minimize run-out and something like the Hornady Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator. Also, you will want to lightly chamfer the inside and outside of every case mouth once when you get the case and once every time you trim the case.
Micrometers DO NOT make more accurate rounds, they just make it easier to return close to where the die was previously set. I prefer to retire the die for a pet load and get a new one, than to spend money on micrometers and look up some setting later.

>My aim is at reloading for accuracy, so I'm looking for a setup that'll be as consistent as I am.

How consistent is THAT?
Accuracy is the rifle, the bullet, and the shooter. Everything else you are worrying about is a long drop in importance. Accuracy is often achieved by shooting more and not by tricks at the bench.

>I plan on only reloading for .223/5.56 and possibly .308 (got rid of most other calibers).

>PS What's an efficient, yet quiet way to clean brass? Tumbler's are loud

All you need to do is wipe off the exterior of the case. Cleaning does not add to accuracy.
Quiet? Vibrators are loud.
My Thumler's Tumbler is quiet. My Ultrasonic is pretty much noiseless. If your cleaning needs mean absolutely clean and shiny cases, you'll have to put up with a Thumler and SS pins, as the US will thoroughly clean, but won't achieve the super-shiny factor so many want.

Of course, what you really want is a Dillon 1050 with RT 1500 trimmer installed...

[chromatica]

I started with a Lee Classic Cast press - that thing is as solid as a rock so no regrets there. (I believe it's made in the US.). I started with Hornady dies and then began using Forster Ultra Micrometer seating dies. The Forster seating dies have a spring loaded sleeve that aligns the bullet with the case as the two are mated.

After having such a positive initial response to Forster products, I jumped at the chance to pick up a used Co-Ax press. I use it for seating and crimping my cartridges. It is known for creating the most concentric ammo out there. I use the Lee Factory Crimp dies for this final step in the process.

I decided to buy a Harbor Freight vibratory tumbler. It is very heavy duty and can be had for half of what you would pay for one of the name brand tumblers. I also purchased a 25 pound box of walnut shells which should last me for the rest of my natural life.

[Kwikvette]

I apologize for being Debbie Downer but.... Consistent 1/4" groups from an AR is asking a lot. Your dies and press are a small part of accuracy.
I am in no way dissuading you from reloading, your groups will most likely shrink and stay consistent. Hopefully, you enjoy it as it is a relaxing hobby but unrealistic expectations make for frustration.
Good luck in your decisions, welcome to the madness.

You're not being a downer, just cherry picking what I've posted throughout the thread

The point I was trying to make is, I want to fix the variable that is ammunition.

The other point that's been made is, I have the gear (IE rifle's, optics) that'll get me there alone.

For me, shooting is my most relaxing hobby and I'd like to set a goal for something to achieve.

Start with a lee kit if you want to save money. If you have a little more cash to spend, go for a rock chucker kit. Both of these presses will handle 223 and 308, and will load MOA ammo if you know what you're doing.

Forget about the fancy pants presses and progressives for now. You need practice in basic reloading principles.

As stated many times throughout the forum, money is not an issue. I am not asking to save on my upfront cost; I want to buy what's considered the best in order to handload ammunition that is consistent from the first round to the last.

Cherry picked 3 shot groups, common in the gun world.

They should instead load a mag and shoot 10-20 rounds in succession. Then we'll see how that semi auto military rifle really runs.

Don't cherry pick statements brother! A few have questioned whether my gear is up to par, it is. That's all.

Read a few manuals and read them again.

I did so immediately when the Dillion 650 was brought up as well as the Co-Ax. I really like the fact that the Co-Ax doesn't require different shellholders.

Arbor press and custom dies that match your rifle's chamber (see Wilson). Forster Co-Ax is my first and last choice for single-stage press; however, they are all more than good enough and you'll make ammunition just as accurate with a Lee Challenger press.

That's the answer I'm looking for! I don't compete so I don't think I'll go that far, but simply put if I wanted the best...I'd need a custom set.

No, they really aren't until you get those hand-made custom dies that match your chamber.
Lee has won benchrest and long-distance matches, but most like some other feature of some other die.
If shooting bolt action, you need a full length size die, you will probably want a neck-only sizing die, and a seating die.
If shooting semi-auto, you need a full length size die (of any make) and a seating die (here, a special match seating die with cut-out for placing the bullet in the die might help). I adjust the sizing die until all cases just chamber and I get a custom seating plug that actually FITS the bullet I am using and does not touch the meplat at all.
Beyond that, you will want a bullet run-out tool that will let you "adjust" the bullet to minimize run-out and something like the Hornady Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator. Also, you will want to lightly chamfer the inside and outside of every case mouth once when you get the case and once every time you trim the case.
Micrometers DO NOT make more accurate rounds, they just make it easier to return close to where the die was previously set. I prefer to retire the die for a pet load and get a new one, than to spend money on micrometers and look up some setting later.

How consistent is THAT?
Accuracy is the rifle, the bullet, and the shooter. Everything else you are worrying about is a long drop in importance. Accuracy is often achieved by shooting more and not by tricks at the bench.

It's consistent enough that my rifle and I can shoot and the only reason why groups will change is due to the ammunition I'm using.

All you need to do is wipe off the exterior of the case. Cleaning does not add to accuracy.
Quiet? Vibrators are loud.
My Thumler's Tumbler is quiet. My Ultrasonic is pretty much noiseless. If your cleaning needs mean absolutely clean and shiny cases, you'll have to put up with a Thumler and SS pins, as the US will thoroughly clean, but won't achieve the super-shiny factor so many want.

Of course, what you really want is a Dillon 1050 with RT 1500 trimmer installed...

This is where I need to learn something altogether.

I see threads/videos/etc. of reloaders either dry or wet tumbling and getting their brass as clean as possible.

Seeing this, I am led to believe that brass must be as clean as depicted online before one can reload.

I've also read conflicting information such as only needing to thoroughly clean ammunition if picked up out at the range or field. When shooting your own reloaded ammunition, no cleaning is necessary other than the primer pocket?

Again I'm starting out with gear first before I move on to brass prep, etc.

[OpenSightsOnly]

Micrometers DO NOT make more accurate rounds, they just make it easier to return close to where the die was previously set. I prefer to retire the die for a pet load and get a new one, than to spend money on micrometers and look up some setting later.

If you use one bullet type and load to a specific length like no longer than magazine length, then a micrometer seater aint gonna help you.

For 223, I use the 80 and 82 grain bullets. The Forsters micrometer seater helps me out since I use Berger, Sierra, and Hornady (while each one has a different ogive to base length). It also makes the process easier if you have to adjust the seating depth due to throat erosion.

[OpenSightsOnly]

This is where I need to learn something altogether.

I see threads/videos/etc. of reloaders either dry or wet tumbling and getting their brass as clean as possible.

Seeing this, I am led to believe that brass must be as clean as depicted online before one can reload.

I've also read conflicting information such as only needing to thoroughly clean ammunition if picked up out at the range or field. When shooting your own reloaded ammunition, no cleaning is necessary other than the primer pocket?

Again I'm starting out with gear first before I move on to brass prep, etc.

Some folks go to great lengths to get that shiny brass, its all about bling

I use once fired milspec brass so thats dull and grimy from the get go. I use walnut media with the CV750 along with a polish additive that I got from CH4D. After 2,000 pieces of brass the walnut media is toast.

If you use wet thumbling, that will strip clean the brass including the carbon from the case neck. So if you seating a bullet, just apply mica/dry neck lube to the case neck prior to bullet seating. If you don't then you will screw-up the bullet's copper jacket. BTDT

[Kwikvette]

Just an update;

I've got the Co-Ax single stage press in my cart (for 2 days now) but waiting until tomorrow to see if I can get a discount/coupon via phone from Midway.

I'm undecided on dies at the moment, but if I don't get the dies I'll add a few other items to the cart IE brass, projectiles, trimmer, etc.

I have a ton of brass sitting aside in a cardboard box and I may go as far as cleaning it all up on the side before I finish buying everything I need.

[stand125]

You have asked numerous times who makes the best press and dies. That is like asking who makes the best truck. You will get 5 opinions from 5 people which leave you more confused.