calipers

[Cheap Shot]

Best of the batch...I bought a Harbor Freight Dial Caliper. Just as cheap as their digital set and no batteries needed either. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/i...ies/tongue.gif

[croue]

"Orthogonal" - nice one, I like that word myself but usually get funny looks from folks when I use it.
I guess I was just saying that claiming dial calipers have some advantage sounds like the folks who always claim the 'old stuff is better than this new fangled stuff' (like tube amps vs. digital amps).
You'll find this same discussion on metrology forums and shop forums, etc. Basically, what I believe I see from those forums is that anyone who used a dial caliper when they learned to do, whatever they first did with them, prefers them for often nebulous reasons (I have a thesaurus too ;-) ) like the feel, etc. That's fine. Basically they are more comfortable with them. Nothing wrong with that.
But digital calipers do have at least as much accuracy across their range as dials (not as good as vernier, but they are more difficult to use) and are easier to read, and yes you have to have a feel for not squeezing them too tight without having the moving needle as feedback. You have the digits changing as you apply pressure for feedback. I guess you'd have to get the feel for that.
But for pure utility - almost all digital calipers have more resolution (and yes the resolution is real and can be certified by a calibration house) can go from inch to metric at the touch of a button, are easier to rezero for making relative measurements and just plain work very well and are plain easy to read and use.
I even have a pair meant for use in coolant so you can measure parts on the mill and get them wet with no issues. And there is no rack to get chips caught in to create the need to rezero.
I guess I'm saying dials are fine, but they are not better in any tangible way. And if you need real precision, learn how to use vernier calipers or get a micrometer - both of those are better than either dial or digital calipers.

[liber]

IBGSHFDFTDCTGIKUT.

In before get some hazard fraught digitals cuz some guy I know uses them.

LOL...I know a famous guy that measures RCHs with a pair of HF calipers...

[ProtectThe2nd]

...But for regular reloading, you don't even begin to need expensive calipers. You may want and like expensive calipers, but you don't need them.

^^^this^^^

[XDJYo]

Dude, I know you were using it as an illustration, but tube amps ARE superior to digital amps.


Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

[GovGeek]

"Orthogonal" - nice one, I like that word myself but usually get funny looks from folks when I use it.
I guess I was just saying that claiming dial calipers have some advantage sounds like the folks who always claim the 'old stuff is better than this new fangled stuff' (like tube amps vs. digital amps).
You'll find this same discussion on metrology forums and shop forums, etc. Basically, what I believe I see from those forums is that anyone who used a dial caliper when they learned to do, whatever they first did with them, prefers them for often nebulous reasons (I have a thesaurus too ;-) ) like the feel, etc. That's fine. Basically they are more comfortable with them. Nothing wrong with that.
But digital calipers do have at least as much accuracy across their range as dials (not as good as vernier, but they are more difficult to use) and are easier to read, and yes you have to have a feel for not squeezing them too tight without having the moving needle as feedback. You have the digits changing as you apply pressure for feedback. I guess you'd have to get the feel for that.
But for pure utility - almost all digital calipers have more resolution (and yes the resolution is real and can be certified by a calibration house) can go from inch to metric at the touch of a button, are easier to rezero for making relative measurements and just plain work very well and are plain easy to read and use.
I even have a pair meant for use in coolant so you can measure parts on the mill and get them wet with no issues. And there is no rack to get chips caught in to create the need to rezero.
I guess I'm saying dials are fine, but they are not better in any tangible way. And if you need real precision, learn how to use vernier calipers or get a micrometer - both of those are better than either dial or digital calipers.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Dials show results the entire time, don't need screen refreshes, and you can tell even looking off axis if they moved when removing them from your work. Digital will only step in pre-programmed increments and are difficult to see off axis. Using Google-fu doesn't compete against experience... Remember you're talking to a trade machinist who quickly became foreman and CNC programmer. I don't know everything, but this topic is very elementary and I didn't need to research forums to arrive at my educated assessment.

Just because resolution is more fine does NOT make an instrument more accurate, it can still be sloppy and inaccurate. Any tool that uses the vernier scale isn't any more accurate by nature, because it's the user that has to translate, and they may be used to only using digital calipers.

Use whatever makes you comfortable... obviously. However, anytime I close my calipers and they don't read "0" I know that subsequent measurements won't be accurate. Digital users may just zeroize instead of cleaning off that hidden debris and potentially measure wrong all day. As far as measuring relativity, meh... if math is that hard then digital is the way to go.

[ar15barrels]

But for pure utility - almost all digital calipers have more resolution (and yes the resolution is real and can be certified by a calibration house) can go from inch to metric at the touch of a button, are easier to rezero for making relative measurements and just plain work very well and are plain easy to read and use.

Digital has more resolution only because the markings are so far apart on a dial caliper.
People that use a dial caliper understand that you can read MUCH better resolution from a dial caliper than digitals though because you can see the analog needle is sitting between the marks.
Even though I don't trust any of them for accuracy less than a couple thousandths (I own micrometers for that), a dial caliper will show you 0.0001" where digitals are 0.0005" at best.

[milotrain]

I had a fantastic science teacher in high school who explained significant digits by showing us a ruler with 1/8" devisions and showing us how you can easily "see" 1/16" and 1/32" even though they were not marked.

I like the non electric digital micrometers for the same reason, the amount of rotation of the number presents obvious halves and quarters of the last digit. I don't know how accurate the lash is on the number display but I always come up on the number, never back.

[TexasJackKin]

Digital has more resolution only because the markings are so far apart on a dial caliper.
People that use a dial caliper understand that you can read MUCH better resolution from a dial caliper than digitals though because you can see the analog needle is sitting between the marks.
Even though I don't trust any of them for accuracy less than a couple thousandths (I own micrometers for that), a dial caliper will show you 0.0001" where digitals are 0.0005" at best.

This^^^^^^

I own several dial calipers, and several digital calipers, different tools for different jobs, I also own a full set of micrometers, telescoping gauges, ball gauges and on and on, I'm a semi retired machinist / Tool and die maker, I have way more measuring equipment than needed for reloading, but I've got and it, I use it.

One thing (as stated elsewhere in this thread) digitalis are great for switching from US to metric and back.

[stilly]

Digital has more resolution only because the markings are so far apart on a dial caliper.
People that use a dial caliper understand that you can read MUCH better resolution from a dial caliper than digitals though because you can see the analog needle is sitting between the marks.
Even though I don't trust any of them for accuracy less than a couple thousandths (I own micrometers for that), a dial caliper will show you 0.0001" where digitals are 0.0005" at best.

I wondered why my sizes got more consistent when the batteries died and I switched over to a dial...

[liber]

It's amazing how a sector of people (i.e., reloaders) can pontificate on calipers when it matters not WTF they use. They don't need to be accurate, you can use a pair of $3 outside calipers that don't have any markings on them, just measure a cartridge that you want to duplicate.

If you appreciate nice tools, it won't break the bank to get a decent pair of calipers, and if your cheap as sin, go to Harbor Freight and smell the 2 week old Chinese food. This holds true for analog vs. digital, get whatever floats your boat and be happy, cause you'll be using them, not anyone else. LOL

OP you probably have a gear that is missing teeth. That's pretty much the only way a set of dial calipers will measure differently. Lucky for you that your calipers are worth repairing and will be good for another 20+ years.

[GovGeek]

It's amazing how a sector of people (i.e., reloaders) can pontificate on calipers when it matters not WTF they use. They don't need to be accurate, you can use a pair of $3 outside calipers that don't have any markings on them, just measure a cartridge that you want to duplicate.

If you appreciate nice tools, it won't break the bank to get a decent pair of calipers, and if your cheap as sin, go to Harbor Freight and smell the 2 week old Chinese food. This holds true for analog vs. digital, get whatever floats your boat and be happy, cause you'll be using them, not anyone else. LOL

OP you probably have a gear that is missing teeth. That's pretty much the only way a set of dial calipers will measure differently. Lucky for you that your calipers are worth repairing and will be good for another 20+ years.

Oh it matters plenty. It may seem pompous and/or dogmatic from where you're sitting and enjoying your popcorn. However, knowledge has been called to task here and nobody likes to be wrong! Hehehe.

An argument doesn't end until someone submits to another's ideals anyway, I mean, that's the point isn't it? Unless... we can agree to (say it together class) disagree.

[croue]

Oh it matters plenty. It may seem pompous and/or dogmatic from where you're sitting and enjoying your popcorn. However, knowledge has been called to task here and nobody likes to be wrong! Hehehe.

An argument doesn't end until someone submits to another's ideals anyway, I mean, that's the point isn't it? Unless... we can agree to (say it together class) disagree.

Because in America we get to disagree! You're totally right. Nobody's convincing anyone on the spot of pretty much anything. 99.9% of all arguments end that way. But at least we get to educate ourselves on what others think and the price is having to say what we think. And admit it, sometimes it's a little fun to stir stuff up. I thought that's what all internet forums are for?
We may change our minds later, in a less public forum, but it's human nature to dig in when confronted initially.
Something to keep in mind if/when you get into gun law discussions. You aren't likely to convince them then and there. You're just educating them at best and most folks will have to digest the info and they may or may not reject your point of view at some later point. But listen to what they're saying too. If you understand where they're coming from at least you'll know what you're up against.

C

[croue]

I thought I was also quoting the part where the difference is absolutely not relevant to most reloading. Maybe gunsmithing. But verifying a bullet diameter or a COL doesn't need accuracy in the tenths, thousandths is fine and either one does a perfect job of that.

[GovGeek]

I thought I was also quoting the part where the difference is absolutely not relevant to most reloading. Maybe gunsmithing. But verifying a bullet diameter or a COL doesn't need accuracy in the tenths, thousandths is fine and either one does a perfect job of that.

Well, unless you're measuring Glocked brass, because as all high-class reloaders know, Glocks are inferior. Mwaaaahahahaha (j/k)