When do you pay for a PPT?

[CWDraco]

I don't believe it's safe or wise to handle or inspect firearms in the back of a car or just outside in a parking lot, but some sellers I've met prefer it.

I also don't think it's very wise to exchange cash before paperwork is signed.

Dude after the paper work is signed the SELLER has NO RIGHTS TO THE FIREARM AT ALL.. the deal is DONE

Please show me a store that gives you a receipt BEFORE you pay for the item.

[CWDraco]

I pay after the seller signed the form.

you will never buy a gun from me. I am never signing a form saying you now own the firearm before you pay me for that firearm.

If you give me money and I dont give you a firearm = CRIMINAL ACT, ITS A SCAM, ITS THEFT
If you dont give me money after I sign a form giving you the gun and give you the gun = CIVIL MATTER

[CWDraco]

..............

for payment, that is a different story. usually fill the paperwork out and before signing for both the seller and me the buyer, i will step outside or to a discrete location in the store to hand over the cash. has worked well for me thus far.

so the FFL just stands there while you two walk away and out of his store

[J-cat]

you will never buy a gun from me. I am never signing a form saying you now own the firearm before you pay me for that firearm.

If you give me money and I dont give you a firearm = CRIMINAL ACT, ITS A SCAM, ITS THEFT
If you dont give me money after I sign a form giving you the gun and give you the gun = CIVIL MATTER

What are you talking about? Why would you not sign the forms after having been paid when both of us are at the FFL??? You want to sell it thats why you met me at the FFL.

[CWDraco]

What are you talking about? Why would you not sign the forms after having been paid when both of us are at the FFL??? You want to sell it thats why you met me at the FFL.

If Buyer hands Seller cash and Seller doesnt give Buyer the firearm or sign the form, its criminal. It can even be felony against Seller if it gets physical.

If Buyer doesnt give cash AFTER Seller hands firearm over and AFTER he signs the forms...ITS A CIVIL MATTER. The Police can't do a thing. The Seller must file a Civil suit against the Buyer for a CONTRACT not completed.

Veggie said he would NEVER pay unless the Seller signed the form. I will NEVER sign a form unless the cash is in my register, or pocket.

Think about it...when do you hand over money at a store...before or after they hand you a receipt? Why do you think that is? Because the receipt is proof the contract has been COMPLETED...its done its over, no further action is required. If either party is upset with the transaction..ITS A CIVIL MATTER.

[J-cat]

But why would a seller not sign the form after agreeing to meet at a gun store to sell his freaking gun???????????

You mean to tell me two people meet at a FFL to transfer a gun and one takes the cash and runs away?

Or the seller signs the form but the buyer refuses to pay knowing full well he furnished all of his contact info?

These are some wild scenarios.

I have bought and sold a lot of guns over the years and never had anyone refuse to sign paperwork or run with the cash.

[BigPimping]

I always inspect a firearm inside the ffl. This is California and some liberal might call in a 911call for a man with a gun. Then you have a lot of explaining to do.

[diverwcw]

Very Good Advice

I always inspect a firearm inside the ffl. This is California and some liberal might call in a 911 call for a man with a gun. Then you have a lot of explaining to do.

A quick check of the firearm outside the store then inside for further inspection and then the transaction. Up until the submit button is hit on the DROS computer, the buyer is free to walk away for any reason with no negative feedback. As far as payment goes, I've done several and some people pay before the DROS and some pay after. I've been paid inside and outside both before and after the transaction. PPT unwritten etiquette seems to dictate the buyer always pays DROS fees and pays IN CASH. Checks are not accepted.

But I agree, this is california and if some passerby sees somebody inspecting a firearm in a parking lot, some do gooder will certainly dial 9-1-1 screaming "man with a gun!"

[J-cat]

In from of a gun store. Yeah, OK.

[Mitch]

3- If the buyer doesnt pass DROS, they get 30 days to clear it up or the seller gets a chance at getting the gun back if they pass a DROS... Some FFLs will just turn the firearm over to the local PD...and the seller doesn't have to give you the money back....its a CIVIL matter...its NOT criminal.

Yikes! I once had a buyer fail DROS (old DV charge), and lucky for me the shop called me or the buyer (I forget which) instead of the cops. I went back to get my gun from the shop, gave buyer his money back (except DROS fee, he was out that).

Later I sold the gun to someone else.

[steel30]

Inspection inside with cash transaction before paperwork is started is BEST. Everyone will have different experiences and feel comfortable in different ways. The point is to be safe and follow the rules of the establishment handling the PPT. If inspection is to be made inside the store and they do not allow cash exchange inside, then guess what? If you really want to get paid prior to paperwork being filled out, politely excuse yourself and go outside. Check itrader status first if dealing with a local Calgunner.

[CWDraco]

But why would a seller not sign the form after agreeing to meet at a gun store to sell his freaking gun???????????

You mean to tell me two people meet at a FFL to transfer a gun and one takes the cash and runs away? yes, this would be criminal theft, but criminals are stupid. they do it on forums all the time.

Or the seller signs the form but the buyer refuses to pay knowing full well he furnished all of his contact info? yes, there is NOTHING stopping the buyer from doing this. the Seller just signed over the firearm. the ffl has no choice but to give the firearm to the new owner...he just cant do that for 10 days.

These are some wild scenarios.

I have bought and sold a lot of guns over the years and never had anyone refuse to sign paperwork or run with the cash.

I have heard of both these happening.

[CWDraco]

People think an FFL is a Escrow Agent. He/She is not unless they accept the firearm from another FFL...which is why you pay a higher fee to the FFL.

Under the PPT the FFL is simply making sure the NEW OWNER is not prohibited. They don't care who paid what or when. Its not up to them to make that determination.

An FFL's view on a PPT is as follows..
Old Owner gives New Owner firearm with a signature.
The SECOND the Old Owner signs the paper... its NOT HIS FIREARM, unless the New Owner is prohibited. At that time the Old Owner COULD get the firearm back...but there is nothing stopping the FFL from just handing the firearm to the local PD for destruction.
Done.

[CWDraco]

The best way to handle this is with COMMUNICATION.
Talk to the Buyer, The Seller and the FFL.

[Granite]

After agreeing on price, the gun is checked in an ffl. First, it looks weird to outside parties if two people are looking at guns in a parking lot. Second, you want a face on camera if the deal goes south.

Inspect the gun and if you like it pay before the final signatures. You can always ask to pay half at the beginning and half at the end. Come to an agreement before you ppt. An honest deal shouldn't be afraid of a few security details.