Another gun store that doesn't do PPTs *Updated Post 42*

[SonofWWIIDI]

This just seems to be the opposite argument most would take if the FFL messed up on the paper work that is required by law and needs the person to return to sign some documents. It is the law the FFL needs to obey, I do not like it but if the law says the FFL must do all this paperwork correctly then I need to do my part in complying with the law and return to provide the signatures.

One one hand we are willing to have the license yanked for not complying with the law but on the other hand we do not give a hoot if they lose their license because they did not comply with the law.

Apples and oranges.

1) Law states that all transfers of firearms must go through an authorized licensed FFL, and a fee paid by the purchaser.
2) Law states that dealers must perform PPT, primarily because of the first law.

If a dealer messes up on the PPW, that's not our fault, that is the dealers.

That said, if I get a call from a local dealer that states THEY messed up on the PPW and I need to return to fix THEIR error, not my fault, but I'm amicable to return to fix THEIR error. I would also give them good natured grief about THEIR error.

If however an hours away dealer has the same issue, after ten days and two tries (initial completion review, further review during the wait, pick-up review), that is not my problem, and I would expect some compensation for time/travel.

So again, I think the two situations are apples and oranges.

I also say again, blame the nanny state politicians.

[Zedrek]

There are 2 other LGS in Tulare.

TK Firearms: http://www.tkfirearmstulare.com

and

Tulare Firearms: http://www.tularefirearms.com

Tulare Firearms is rather new. Look at their webpage. It almost seems as if they understood Ace Firearms was a bad business so they could expand their business into firearms and just by providing great customer service which they already seem to have a reputation for, they will be able to beat the competition. They are also very close to Ace Firearms.

What will work better, notifying the DOJ to go after them or the free market solution? I understand the argument that they should follow the law. But if their is a dealer a mile away that is doing PPTs, is selling the same guns for a lower price and not adding shipping and handling fees on top of the price of the gun at check out, which one will survive?

Really, the DOJ will very likely not care about the refusal to do PPTs. By the time they get around to looking into it, Ace guns will be out of business. If they do visit them, they might buy the story that their safe is not large enough. I have watched state agencies give variances to requirements before. Even if the DOJ tells them they have to do PPTs, how many of you are really going to step foot into Ace guns knowing how poorly the place is run, how bad the prices are, and how grumpy the owner is, especially knowing you will get much better service from a LGS that wants your business just a mile away.

This reminds me of elementary school kids on the playground upset because little Johnny did not get into trouble for stepping over the yellow line and every one is ready to tattle on him.

How many of you follow every single law in this state, or do you ignore the ones you can get away with or do not like?

It still doesn't change the fact that a dealer is refusing to follow the same rules that we have to abide by. I can't tell someone that there isn't an FFL nearby so let me just buy the gun without doing the paperwork. How is it fair that all of the other dealers follow this rule but someone gets to get away with it.

I don't want to see a dealer get shut down but at the same time I don't want them to set the ball rolling where other dealers join him.

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[kermit315]

Tagged to follow, but I do not think much will come of it.

[dyson]

There are 2 other LGS in Tulare.

TK Firearms: http://www.tkfirearmstulare.com

and

Tulare Firearms: http://www.tularefirearms.com

TK Firearms is a home based LGS, could work if you have time for an appointment prior to PPT.

Never been to Tulare firearms

Just like any business, if you were denied service you should of gotten you can report them. I've only overpaid for 22LR there so I have no issues with Ace's PPT policy.

[zhyla]

If the safe is actually full, what can a LGS do but turn you away?

[Sharp Shooter]

OP I agree with you 100%. Keep on em and keep up posted.

[Jason95357]

If the safe is actually full, what can a LGS do but turn you away?

Buy a StackOn? If they have adequate space to add it, that seems like a legal option they should take.

[zinfull]

So if I show up to do a PPT and the LGS said they do not do them could I then give the gun to the seller and walk off with the money. We have to follow the stupid laws so do LGS.

[-hanko]

So if I show up to do a PPT and the LGS said they do not do them could I then give the gun to the seller and walk off with the money. We have to follow the stupid laws so do LGS.

You took the words right outta' my mouth.

There's a lot of "What's good for the goose is not good for the gander" here.

FFL's in California know the rules and need to abide by them, just as its citizens know and do.

If they're out of storage space, hit Costco for a POS safe. Hell, they should have alarms out their butt to keep in compliance with federal law.

I'd drop a dime and contact the DOJ and biatch about it.

[IVC]

If the safe is actually full, what can a LGS do but turn you away?

Law doesn't have a "full safe exemption." Also, there is a big difference between "we do PPT and we have so many in the process that we are over capacity," and "we don't have any PPT guns in our safes, but they are full anyway."

[IVC]

I'm tired of hearing people complain about it and not do anything about it so here we go. I'll update when/if the DOJ calls me back.

I'll go against the grain and agree with you.

PPT is a service we all need and there is a reason why it's in the law. It should be a routine matter to help enforce this part of the law and ensure that people have a place to do PPT. We are not doing anyone any favors by being quiet.

We should see PPT for what it is - a service to the gun community which might not be the most profitable, but is usually a pretty good deal for a few minutes of paperwork. If an LGS won't do it, it's no different than an LGS who tries to gouge customers in crisis times - nothing worth protecting and not a friend of ours.

[CSACANNONEER]

I doubt I'd be interested in forcing a FFL to follow the law. Personally, I will take note of it and never use any FFL that has decided to break any law. I just don't want to do business with criminals which, they are admitting to being.

[JackRydden224]

It's funny, they should take the chance to bring in potential customers but I guess I don't think that way. Many gun people are not business people. OC Armory got my business forever when they processed all my PPTs in 5 minutes.

[IVC]

I doubt I'd be interested in forcing a FFL to follow the law.

The idea is that the collective pressure will make "we don't PPT" a non-starter.

I wouldn't go back to the store that was forced to do it, but as the time goes by and people start PPT-ing, it becomes common and standard. At that time going back to do a PPT is a matter of convenience - sure they keep the gun for 10 days, but they will treat it like any other gun in their inventory.

Here's where I'm coming from. In my area there are two major specialized gun stores (Faith Armory and The Shootist), new Turners and a few smaller/newer gun stores. However, nobody does SSE. So, I go to OC Armory in Laguna Hills, which is some 60 miles away. If doing SSE was a legal requirement, I would certainly push to make LGS do it - it's a lot of driving currently.

[Gryff]

Personally, it is their business, if you do not like their policy, go somewhere else. That is what the free market is all about.

Bull. This is a mandated requirement for FFLs. It is part of the cost of doing business if you want to own a gun store in California. Don't want to do it? Go open a 7-11.

I hope the OP gets the store's cahones roasted by the CADOJ for try to pull this BS, but I doubt the agency wil care.