Another gun store that doesn't do PPTs *Updated Post 42*

[Zedrek]

So, I heard that Ace Guns in Tulare refuses to do PPTs. I called them to ask and they said that they don't do them and that they refer all of the PPTs to another gun store in Visalia. I said that I was under the impression that all FFLs had to do PPTs and they said that they don't have room in the safe to hold them.

Sounds like BS to me because I've been there and they have plenty of room to add another safe. Anyways, I called the DOJ and the woman that answered the phone did not know the answer so she forwarded me to a field agent to leave a message which I did.

I'm tired of hearing people complain about it and not do anything about it so here we go. I'll update when/if the DOJ calls me back.

[jeremiah12]

Personally, I am not a fan of doing this, especially when I do not have a dog in the fight. It is the same as the jerks in wheelchairs that drive out of their way to find businesses that are out of compliance with any ADA regulation and then file suit. If it was not for the fact the business was out of compliance on something, the person would have never gone into the business.

In this nanny state, the DOJ is doing all it can to keep guns out of the hands of us legal gun owners. Ultimately, I doubt they will do much because it just adds another roadblock to gun transactions.

Personally, it is their business, if you do not like their policy, go somewhere else. That is what the free market is all about. The Yelp reviews I read stated they also add a shipping and handling fee on all firearms that they have in the store. They do not tell you that until they are ringing you up. A few have left, gone down the street and found the same gun for much cheaper.

There are a few LGS I stay away from. One would not accept a rifle from an out of state FFL. Another said he would accept a gen 4 G26 from out of state and do the SSE. After 3 weeks and several calls and visits to the store, he still never did his part. I found an FFL that came through at the last minute. Now, that is where I do all of my business as he runs a stand up business and has great customer service. He also has extremely competitive pricing.

This is how the free market is supposed to work. Do you really want to do business with someone that does not want your business? Calling the DOJ on them to force them to do PPT will not work. They will just find some other way to discourage it. They will do things like you will have to wait until all others that are purchasing in store merchandise have been helped or charge a storage fee. They will still run people off with their crappy attitude. Of course they could also make you set up an appointment for PPTs and limit the number they do that way.

Quit worrying about the other guy, especially when it has nothing to do with you. You were not affected. You did not try to do a PPT there and were turned away. You were not inconvenienced and had to drive 100 miles to the next nearest LGS to do the PPT.

They are just another cr*ppy LGS and there are lots of them in this state. Ignore them and only spend your money at the good ones.

[I Swan]

Here we go again. They are forced to business with people they don't want to but we have other laws like that too. We have civil rights laws that basically force people to do business with, go to school with, etc, people they may dislike due to race, color, creed, etc.

[bohoki]

if they dont have room to store it i'll happly store the gun that will be mine in my safe for 10 days

report them we cannot have firearm dealers breaking the law

[Mr. Beretta]

I'd be the first one to suggest not ratting them out to DOJ but here's my .2 cents.

If the FFL wants to do business in California then they gotta obey the law in regards to PPT's. Gun buyers, stores owners, etc... (just like FFL's) can't pick & choose what law they want to obey. Even if that law is a PIA.

If they don't obey the law, then don't cry when they get fined, lose business, etc....because of their actions.

If as a gun buyer, I am forced by law to conduct a PPT at a FFL then I got no sympathy for the FFL that is forced to process the PPT.

[Fizz]

Eh, I don't really care to report entities to the state unless it's the only effective manner of recourse. In this case vote with your dollar and let economics decide and let the three letter agencies find out on their own paychecks.

Not everything can be solved with law or the state, nor should it be. While the law may be on our side on this, is it really best to use it? It's validating laws and bureaucracies that shouldn't exist. You know the gun grabbing spin on this is, "Firearms enthusiasts reported xxxx cases to the [agency] in [year] showing that common sense regulation and enforcement on the sale of firearms is desired by the community at large."

Supporting the state in regulating firearms commerce. Not something we should be supporting.

[Ronin2]

Personally, I wouldnt want to force a LGS to do something they did not want to do AND THEN hand them a new to me gun to hold for 10 days...

[Dvrjon]

So what would you like to do? DOJ clarified the requirement in 2001. The law follows:

28050. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a
firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to
26915, inclusive, in accordance with this chapter in order to comply
with Section 27545.

28065. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a dealer who
does not sell, transfer, or keep an inventory of handguns is not
required to process private party transfers of handguns.

28070. A violation of this chapter by a dealer is a misdemeanor.

[megolfer]

ACE guns sucks. I would not step foot in that place. This is the same place that was charging over $100 for a brick of 22. They are rude. Report them and go somewhere else.

[Zedrek]

I don't see myself ever going back to them but I hate to see a dealer flaunt the law when we have to follow it. If they get away with it then others will try and soon you won't be able to do one anywhere. People need to stop rolling over and taking it. Do something about it.

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[dyson]

Ace guns charges ridiculous prices. I think they might be the only shop in Tulare too, which makes it worse that they dont provide ppt service for their city.

[DCF]

I can understand the paperwork involved in PPT plus 10 days waiting period is putting a strain on FFL's resources. I don't like it as a customer but I have no choice but to obey the law. I am sure most FFL don't like it but they still have to obey the law.

CA is not business friendly and being a FFL in CA is worst. If they choose to become a FFL in CA then they should at least follow the law and make it less painful for the customers.

[SonofWWIIDI]

I'd be the first one to suggest not ratting them out to DOJ but here's my .2 cents.

If the FFL wants to do business in California then they gotta obey the law in regards to PPT's. Gun buyers, stores owners, etc... (just like FFL's) can't pick & choose what law they want to obey. Even if that law is a PIA.

If they don't obey the law, then don't cry when they get fined, lose business, etc....because of their actions.

If as a gun buyer, I am forced by law to conduct a PPT at a FFL then I got no sympathy for the FFL that is forced to process the PPT.

^^^^This. I don't like it either, but if the law says we must PPT through a licensed dealer, the dealers need to obey the law and do PPT's.

Blame the nanny state politicians.

[jeremiah12]

Ace guns charges ridiculous prices. I think they might be the only shop in Tulare too, which makes it worse that they dont provide ppt service for their city.

There are 2 other LGS in Tulare.

TK Firearms: http://www.tkfirearmstulare.com

and

Tulare Firearms: http://www.tularefirearms.com

Tulare Firearms is rather new. Look at their webpage. It almost seems as if they understood Ace Firearms was a bad business so they could expand their business into firearms and just by providing great customer service which they already seem to have a reputation for, they will be able to beat the competition. They are also very close to Ace Firearms.

What will work better, notifying the DOJ to go after them or the free market solution? I understand the argument that they should follow the law. But if their is a dealer a mile away that is doing PPTs, is selling the same guns for a lower price and not adding shipping and handling fees on top of the price of the gun at check out, which one will survive?

Really, the DOJ will very likely not care about the refusal to do PPTs. By the time they get around to looking into it, Ace guns will be out of business. If they do visit them, they might buy the story that their safe is not large enough. I have watched state agencies give variances to requirements before. Even if the DOJ tells them they have to do PPTs, how many of you are really going to step foot into Ace guns knowing how poorly the place is run, how bad the prices are, and how grumpy the owner is, especially knowing you will get much better service from a LGS that wants your business just a mile away.

This reminds me of elementary school kids on the playground upset because little Johnny did not get into trouble for stepping over the yellow line and every one is ready to tattle on him.

How many of you follow every single law in this state, or do you ignore the ones you can get away with or do not like?

[jeremiah12]

^^^^This. I don't like it either, but if the law says we must PPT through a licensed dealer, the dealers need to obey the law and do PPT's.

Blame the nanny state politicians.

This just seems to be the opposite argument most would take if the FFL messed up on the paper work that is required by law and needs the person to return to sign some documents. It is the law the FFL needs to obey, I do not like it but if the law says the FFL must do all this paperwork correctly then I need to do my part in complying with the law and return to provide the signatures.

One one hand we are willing to have the license yanked for not complying with the law but on the other hand we do not give a hoot if they lose their license because they did not comply with the law.