Training?

[MaceWindu]

The assumption in the initial post is that a person can not learn to use his weapon on his own. This is false. You can develop weapons manipulation skills in informal solo training. A class is not necessary.

Another assumption is that "training" will help you in a fight. This can be true or false. Some training will get you killed. I have been to about 10 formal classes where we shot paper and cleared rooms with paper targets. Since then, I realize how silly this training was.

NO ONE WAS SHOOTING BACK.

Fighting requires an opponent. I have learned more in airsoft and paintball than all the shooting schools combined. When someone is trying to kill you back at close distance, you:

1. Point shoot
2. You shoot one handed as you are moving.
3. You learn that cover is everything and you experience the fact that not getting shot is 99% of your priorities.

I never learned these things at a shooting school.

I would like to ask you a few questions:

So do you travel to the mall, church, etc...do you go alone? If "no", do you know how to move with a non-combatant (wife, child, etc...) who has no training?

Training is not about just "pulling the trigger" but when NOT to pull the trigger, you have been schooled on this concept?

Do you drive a car? I assume "yes", have you taken a Vehicle Tactics class, that teaches you how to exfiltrate a car quickly and efficiently?

This is not "calling you out", just points to ponder.

I have been to MANY training classes, with top notch professional trainers. The more I train, the more I realize I don't know.

FOF training? Essential...!!!!

Mace

[Bizcuits]

Do you drive a car? I assume "yes", have you taken a Vehicle Tactics class, that teaches you how to exfiltrate a car quickly and efficiently?

Out of all the classes I've ever heard about or read about, I've always wanted to do a vehicle class.

[MaceWindu]

Out of all the classes I've ever heard about or read about, I've always wanted to do a vehicle class.

Coming SOON to San Jose, CA. I am setting a class up...I will keep you informed.

Vehicle Tactics is a superb class...just think about how much time we spend in our cars.


Mace

[Nemo]

1. Have you bought a Gun this year or last year?
2. Have you bought gear for the weapons you own?
3. Do you go out to eat a lot?
4. Do you drink/smoke a lot?
5. Do you have a non productive bad habit that is wasting money (like a girlfriend)?

1. Yup.
2. Sure have.
3. Not really.
4. No smoking, not much drinking.
5. I go to firearms training WITH my girlfriend!

Like Angel Decoys, I do enjoy firearms training of various types...but I consider the enjoyment of competence gained as important as the self-defense aspect.

Similarly, I also teach unarmed womens' self-defense classes, and I've found that the sheer enjoyment of intense physical training is as worthwhile as the feeling of increased confidence and ability to avoid and defend myself in unexpected situations.

[GJJ]

Mace, we are all on the same side. I am not saying training is bad. It is my opinion that it is not everything it is cracked up to be. And, I also believe the skills can be learned outside of formal training.

I took the Frontsight 4 day handgun class (among many others). It was great for weapons manipulation. However, it was a LONG way from teaching the skills you would need to prevail in a dynamic real fight.

My teenage son and I will take airsoft guns in our house when everyone is gone. One of us hides and the other goes in search of the other. If you haven't done this, you should. You will laugh at the Frontsight courses after this. You will not use your sights, you will be moving like crazy at first contact and you will be firing one handed.

You will also learn where all the sweet spots are in your own house (big plus).

[MaceWindu]

Mace, we are all on the same side. I am not saying training is bad. It is my opinion that it is not everything it is cracked up to be. And, I also believe the skills can be learned outside of formal training.

I took the Frontsight 4 day handgun class (among many others). It was great for weapons manipulation. However, it was a LONG way from teaching the skills you would need to prevail in a dynamic real fight.

My teenage son and I will take airsoft guns in our house when everyone is gone. One of us hides and the other goes in search of the other. If you haven't done this, you should. You will laugh at the Frontsight courses after this. You will not use your sights, you will be moving like crazy at first contact and you will be firing one handed.

You will also learn where all the sweet spots are in your own house (big plus).

...I am 100% with you. That's why I advocate the proper vetting of ANY training company BEFORE you attend. Read the AAR's, pm the people who attended, do your research. Same thing when buying a car, house, etc. We work to hard for what little we have to throw it away.

I only recommend the best...anything else is a waste. FOF training is a "standard" part of my training, as it should be.

Mace

[GJJ]

I am a believer that a man should do about every single thing he can with a gun - formal training, plinking, FOF, Paintball, and hunting.

Have you ever hunted? I coyote hunt with my AR15. It is an excellent way to learn the art of the ambush. This is more of a SHTF skill. But, you have to learn and practice stealth like you wouldn't believe. You learn to be still and silent. You learn to observe. You learn patience and the art of calming your nerves when you see the coyote coming to the call. You learn to look for sign and read terrain. You learn to read distance and marksmanship. You spend 4-8 hours a day with your weapon in your hand and it becomes a part of you.

There is definitely a reason why hunters make some of the better soldiers in wartime.

[Bizcuits]

You will also learn where all the sweet spots are in your own house (big plus).

Just make sure those spots aren't easily penetrated by real gun fire.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Do you drive a car? I assume "yes", have you taken a Vehicle Tactics class, that teaches you how to exfiltrate a car quickly and efficiently?

I always knew Mace was good, but "exfiltrate"? He just reached a new level of respect in my book.

A2 out

[MaceWindu]

Guys,

I bring a BUNCH of classes to the Bay Area yearly. I am just trying to spread the gospel on shooting knowledge, tactics, safety, etc.

This saves money in terms of travel (usually no more than an hour), room and board (sleeping in your own residence eating @ home) and KNOWLEDGE.

I consider myself LUCKY to have hooked up with some high quality training companies and I am trying to make that same training available locally.

Amendment II

Thank you.

Mace

[AngelDecoys]

...... You will laugh at the Frontsight courses after this.

I'm uncertain if you're joking or not? I'm guessing this is your opinion since you've never taken any of the advanced courses at Front Sight? Or you have?....... but prefer airsoft? A basic 4 day course is what it is. A beginner's course.

Don't compare a beginner's course with advanced training. Lets be honest, you weren't really expecting to learn how to move through rooms, shoot simunition at each other, or move through the sewer/tunnel system in that first class? Or were you? You weren't expecting to learn how to shoot from a tower, a parked car, through windows, or from a helicopter for that matter? Or were you? I'm sorry if that was your expectation, but you have to qualify to take those classes.

That's different at other places (of course) where fees are the only pre-requisite.

Guys,

I bring a BUNCH of classes to the Bay Area yearly. I am just trying to spread the gospel on shooting knowledge, tactics, safety, etc.

Mace

Many people I know take the self-defense types of courses because they are fun, not because they ever think they will use such things. The 'self-defense' crowd has its place (don't get me wrong), but its only one aspect of the shooting sports. If that training kicks in during the 1/1,000,000 chance, great. But for many people I know, such a situation is all but unlikely. And I would suggest many people don't get 'formal' training because they do not forsee any likelyhood of needing it (at least the self-defense aspect).

Please post when you get close to running a class in the area. Maybe I'll have some time. I'm always looking to augment my own training with other schools of thought. I've been to quite a few schools nationwide at this point and found everyone has a little different take on things (much like different martial art forms).