Training?

[SuperSet]

Good topic.

To the OP's original points:
1. Yes, a new competition upper but I'm not much of a collector. Definitely a lightweight in comparison to others.
2. Yeppers, some gear to support competition.
3 and 4. Nope. I know, I know.. boring but definitely getting into better shape for it.
5. Oh Christ, no comment.

For me, it's been scheduling and funding as I've been out of work for a bit.

Also, like AR15Barrels, I've been getting some trigger time through regular matches. But like the saying goes, Competition is not the same as Training. They share some commonalities but there are definitely differences and I believe that those who take part in both and know the boundaries are the best served.

[sammy]

I have a 3 year old and a wife with a crippled back so it is more of a time issue, not money. I was able to attend a 4 day Front Sight class which was the best training I have had to date. I look foward to attending a class at Thunder Ranch sometine in the next year. Nice shooting Randall. Much better than me on my best day I am sure.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'm curious, why do you think every gun owner needs tactical training? There are many people who practice shooting disciplines where tactical training would serve little or no use. It seems like you are inferring that if a gun owner doesn't want to be tacticool, he/she shouldn't own a gun. It's that type of thinking that leads to some shooters feeling alienated. Which, in turn, helps the antis with their divide and conquer technique. You know the one that Zumbo fell for. You are doing a Zumbo in reverse and that's just as bad as what Zumbo did. Don't get me wrong. I feel that if you own a gun, you should know how to use it safely and proficiently but, not everyone wants or needs to be able to instintively engage targets in tactical sequence.

[rkt88edmo]

I think I can answer for Mace and add the caveat that he is only speaking to people who own firearms for self defense purposes or would use their arms for self defense purposes.

If you would never consider using your firearm for self defenes then he isn't Zumbo-ing at you.

[CSACANNONEER]

I think I can answer for Mace and add the caveat that he is only speaking to people who own firearms for self defense purposes or would use their arms for self defense purposes.

If you would never consider using your firearm for self defenes then he isn't Zumbo-ing at you.

I wasn't talking about myself. Actually, while I have been legally carrying, I have had a couple of situations where I needed to draw and engage my target quickly. But, the way I read the question, it is very Zumbo-ing to those who own firearms for other reasons.

[AngelDecoys]

Those of you that have never attended weapon or tactics training, why haven't you?

Yes. As much as I can. Never as much as I like but then again, I'm not an LE, I don't forsee using such skills in my own home, and its just fun for me. And there are other venues I participate in such as high power, trap and sporting clays.

Mostly 'training' for me is a weekend (or 4 day) away from home. I consider it on par with yearly (or bi-yearly) hunting trips to other states. I enjoy the tactics, integrated handgun, presicion rifle types of courses, but often joke about zombies during classes.

1. Have you bought a Gun this year or last year?
2. Have you bought gear for the weapons you own?
3. Do you go out to eat a lot?
4. Do you drink/smoke a lot?
5. Do you have a non productive bad habit that is wasting money (like a girlfriend)?

1-3 Yes on all counts
4 Non smoker, drink occasionally (usually wine)

[1911su16b870]

CSA, while I did not interpret Mace's post as you did, I do understand your point. Defensive firearms usage is one aspect of this great sport we have. I did state and believe his point was self defense use of firearms. The newbie who comes in after this or that traumatic event and says I need a handgun for self defense.

I spoke with one such person today who bought a TLE RL2 and 50 rounds of HD ammo, thats it ,no hardball or anything else. I would never trust my life to a firearm and HD ammo that I did not run extensively at the range to prove reliability.

Some target or benchrest shooters probably wonder why I do martial training with firearms. I may have to use my handgun/870/carbine to defend myself or someone I am sworn to protect, but probably will never have to use my precision rifle for that task. I still enjoy rifle work and look forward to taking those courses only due to my overall interest in shooting sports. I've never hunted or done skeet/trap but I hope to do that one day. I appreciate all shooting sports.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that in-total we are One Sport and we must stay united or all of us will suffer.

[MaceWindu]

CSA, while I did not interpret Mace's post as you did, I do understand your point. Defensive firearms usage is one aspect of this great sport we have. I did state and believe his point was self defense use of firearms. The newbie who comes in after this or that traumatic event and says I need a handgun for self defense.

I spoke with one such person today who bought a TLE RL2 and 50 rounds of HD ammo, thats it ,no hardball or anything else. I would never trust my life to a firearm and HD ammo that I did not run extensively at the range to prove reliability.

Some target or benchrest shooters probably wonder why I do martial training with firearms. I may have to use my handgun/870/carbine to defend myself or someone I am sworn to protect, but probably will never have to use my precision rifle for that task. I still enjoy rifle work and look forward to taking those courses only due to my overall interest in shooting sports. I've never hunted or done skeet/trap but I hope to do that one day. I appreciate all shooting sports.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that in-total we are One Sport and we must stay united or all of us will suffer.

I did state and believe his point was self defense use of firearms.

Bingo...

[Bizcuits]

I was in the army for 2 months,

Now I drink lots of beer, play COD4 and GTA4... then I stumble out in the morning with a hang over and play airsoft...

Does that count as training?

[Prowler]

My LaRue SPRE returns to zero. Hopefully, that will always be the case. I just bought another mount for my Leupold Mark 4.

My answer to the questions are yes to all of them, except question 4.

[CSACANNONEER]

First off, I whole heartedly agree that one needs to be proficient with their firearm if they are going to trust their life with it and that training is a great way to help become proficient. But, Mace did not clearly state that he was only targeting those who do rely on their firearms for preserving their life and well being. Instead his question seems to target all gun owners when he simply asked:

Those of you that have never attended weapon or tactics training, why haven't you?

Mace

I'm hoping that my posts will do two things. One is to keep this thread going because it does have a lot of merrit and I agree that most shooters should attend more classes and/or other formal training. The second reason is to point out to many newbee, younger, tacticool shooters that not all shooters feels the need to have some type of combat training and that these shooters should not be shunned just because they have a different view of gun ownership.

[MaceWindu]

This should clear it up for you:

My point is the self defense use of firearms.

Ask yourself these questions:

Do you plan on your your firearm(s) for self defense/ defense of loved one(s) @ anytime?

Do you believe that the police are here to "protect" you? If so, will they be right there when/if said incident occurs to "protect" you?

Do you think that when/if an incident occurs, that you will "rise" to the occasion or fall back to your level of training?

I embrace ALL shooters...clay, bench, plinkers, etc...I have done it all. But, I am also a realist...an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Sun Tzu: Know they enemy and know thy self.

These are just points to ponder within. I bet that there are some people who went to church recently who wish they had some training and some students @ Virginia Tech who wish they did too...


Mace

[Gaijin_45]

My personal philosophy is that gun owners should be proficient with their firearm of choice. At a bare minimum, I expect all gun owners to be drilled with the rules of safety.

For whatever area of interest a shooter may have, whether it's competition shooting, trap, skeet, "tacticool", target, plinking at the range, etc, training will enable an open-minded shooter to have knowledge and experience. From personal experience, taking such courses has shown me what my weaknesses are (and strengths). Working and overcoming those weaknesses results in personal development.

As someone else has mentioned already, the more that I know, the more that I realize how much I really don't know.

In the end, good training is valuable.

Here's an example. Last weekend I was at the range and a stranger approached one of my friends and wanted to know how my buddy could shoot such tight groups. The stranger believed that his factory stock 1911 needed to be customized to get the same level of accuracy.

My friend took the time to mentor this stranger, using the stranger's own factory stock 1911, was able to get him to shoot the same type of tight grouping. The stranger was amazed that he could do it himself and was immensely grateful.

The point of this story is that just a little bit of training and knowledge (which only took about 10 minutes in total) changed this stranger's outlook and performance on shooting.

That is invaluable. As well as seeing the stranger's grin from ear-to-ear as he wished us well and left the range.

[GJJ]

The assumption in the initial post is that a person can not learn to use his weapon on his own. This is false. You can develop weapons manipulation skills in informal solo training. A class is not necessary.

Another assumption is that "training" will help you in a fight. This can be true or false. Some training will get you killed. I have been to about 10 formal classes where we shot paper and cleared rooms with paper targets. Since then, I realize how silly this training was.

NO ONE WAS SHOOTING BACK.

Fighting requires an opponent. I have learned more in airsoft and paintball than all the shooting schools combined. When someone is trying to kill you back at close distance, you:

1. Point shoot
2. You shoot one handed as you are moving.
3. You learn that cover is everything and you experience the fact that not getting shot is 99% of your priorities.

I never learned these things at a shooting school.

[ar15barrels]

NO ONE WAS SHOOTING BACK.

Fighting requires an opponent. I have learned more in airsoft and paintball than all the shooting schools combined. When someone is trying to kill you back at close distance, you:

1. Point shoot
2. You shoot one handed as you are moving.
3. You learn that cover is everything and you experience the fact that not getting shot is 99% of your priorities.

I never learned these things at a shooting school.

Absolutely true.
I don't consider my match experience as defensive or tactical training at all.
I stand in doorways and face the target.
I shoot targets in order based on how fast I can hit them, not based on which one will get me first.
I only use cover when it's required of the course.

I fully realize that the number one rule of surviving a fight is not getting hit.