Need input on a possible new venture

[gaberaynes]

Ok not going to B.S. anyone on where I got my Idea the other day was going through the gunsmithing section and somehow came across a thread titled (Do you clean your own guns?) the starter of the thread is Pally(thanks nice lady).

And I read through the entire thing listening to the gripes and moans of everyone When I realized that I kept reading the same question. (who else is going to do it) And got to thinking what about me. Then today I searched for the thread again and someone said they wished that there was a service that while they where having coffee or something after shooting would do that for them.
So I got to thinking more about it and thought what about a mobile gun cleaning service but now, I am looking into if there is an Interest and All the legalities and licenses that would need to be involved in this sort of venture so I guess I will leave it at that and I hope to hear from you all soon.
Thanks

[ElvenSoul]

I'm sure you could rent space at a range to do this.

[Baboosh]

Couple things off the top of my head:

You would need permission from the range to be on their property to offer this service. You could offer them a cut or pay 'rent'.

Insurance, you'll need it.

LLC, INC. and not a DBA. You are going to clean a gun and someone is going to shoot themselves and say you put too much oil on it and their finger slipped. Protect yourself and assets.

Will this only be done on site at the range? No shipping of firearms to you and then shipping them back? If so you'll need an FFL if you plan on keeping them overnight.

[harmoniums]

You would probably need some kind of FFL to accept the guns for cleaning, even with the owners present.

Good look with the venture, I imagine some range will allow you to set up a trailer/cart or something.

They let a guy sell hot-dogs at Angeles

[Baboosh]

You would probably need some kind of FFL to accept the guns for cleaning, even with the owners present.

Good look with the venture, I imagine some range will allow you to set up a trailer/cart or something.

They let a guy sell hot-dogs at Angeles

Technically he should get an FFL.

If at the range the person brings him their handguns and he cleans them and gives them back no FFL is needed. The range staff can suggest him when people ask about cleaning.

If he does ANY type of gunsmithing like installing a scope technically a FFL is needed.

If you advertise the ATF may say you are a business and come after you.

[gaberaynes]

No gun will be sent through the mail only owners hands to my hands then back this is going to be completely mobile so can do in someones driveway or parking lot at the range I have talked to a couple so far and since they dont offer that service and I will not interfere with there everyday operation they said they have no problem with it.

[gaberaynes]

So when my friend lets me fire his S&W we are breaking the law because I dont have a ffl

[gaberaynes]

remember no alterations are being made just simply cleaning an empty gun that the owner is allowing me to temp hold

[Baboosh]

So when my friend lets me fire his S&W we are breaking the law because I dont have a ffl

Where did you pull that from?

Firing a friends gun is nowhere close to offering a gun cleaning service.

[boukca]

Bravo- I think it is a GREAT IDEA! And I don't see where you would need a FFL. Also, if you need a good website builder, please hit me back. Good luck and I hope it works out.

Also something to consider- the long term health effects of exposure to the cleaning chemicals and ammo residue. Just something to think about.

[Baboosh]

remember no alterations are being made just simply cleaning an empty gun that the owner is allowing me to temp hold

You are doing it for money correct? That is called a business. I also believe the ATF considers cleaning under gunsmithing, I'll have to pull the book I have.

[gaberaynes]

well from everything that I have read for just cleaning a firearm is that the only time a ffl is really needed is if you are going to keep the weapon overnight I am using the My buddies gun as a reference to the amount of time it will be in my hand and I am doing the same amount of alterations to that firearm as if I where cleaning it not really trying to argue just want to know all the arguments so I can take what ever course of action is needed but If I dont need to get an ffl do to a technicality I am going to use that to my benefit

[gaberaynes]

Once again Baboosh you are right if I have set prices I have to not only get an ffl but I have get tax license fictious name etc... but donations on the other hand

[Baboosh]

well from everything that I have read for just cleaning a firearm is that the only time a ffl is really needed is if you are going to keep the weapon overnight I am using the My buddies gun as a reference to the amount of time it will be in my hand and I am doing the same amount of alterations to that firearm as if I where cleaning it not really trying to argue just want to know all the arguments so I can take what ever course of action is needed but If I dont need to get an ffl do to a technicality I am going to use that to my benefit

Best suggestion is to call the ATF and ask. I'm not sure but the ATF says:

Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall
not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who
occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to
firearms;

Can cleaning fall under a occasional repair? Who knows but if you call the ATF and ask you may get a direct answer in minutes.

Do I think the ATF will come after some guy cleaning guns while people wait at a local range? No, but that does that mean you don't need a license? No.

I still wouldn't do it without insurance and legal buffer from your assets.

[Baboosh]

Once again Baboosh you are right if I have set prices I have to not only get an ffl but I have get tax license fictious name etc... but donations on the other hand

You are walking a fine line and there is nothing wrong with that but I wouldn't post about in the internet

Small time job cleaning a dozen guns a week at the range? Sure you'll skate under the radar and no one will know. But I am thinking the what ifs. What if a guy says you damaged his gun? What if a gun says you caused his gun to go off because you used too much lube etc. Then you will have the city, CA BOE and the ATF knocking on your door.

Again this is worst case but something to think about.