Future weapons and 5.56mm

[shellyzsweet]

Sorry I got carried away. Back on subject look at this





It would be hard not to realize you have been shot with a BTHP 75-77

remember though that even ballistic gellitin while being the closest thing to human flesh/body....is still NOT human flesh or body, especially when you account for cavitation on tissue often it is bruised and has trauma but largely shifts around. Cavitation is more likely to cause a bleeding out death over a few hours or days, vs hitting a major blood vessel and bleeding out in 5-6 minutes. (adrenaline is so crazy effective).
-My interpretation is bigger bullet=higher chance of hitting major blood vessels and death faster but not instant.....which is again why it comes down to shot placement. If they keep moving and going for their gun, I keep shooting.
-but sure I would want a bigger bullet, but I still respect the 5.56

[1lostinspace]

remember though that even ballistic gellitin while being the closest thing to human flesh/body....is still NOT human flesh or body, especially when you account for cavitation on tissue often it is bruised and has trauma but largely shifts around. Cavitation is more likely to cause a bleeding out death over a few hours or days, vs hitting a major blood vessel and bleeding out in 5-6 minutes. (adrenaline is so crazy effective).
-My interpretation is bigger bullet=higher chance of hitting major blood vessels and death faster but not instant.....which is again why it comes down to shot placement. If they keep moving and going for their gun, I keep shooting.
-but sure I would want a bigger bullet, but I still respect the 5.56

Well wouldn't fragmentation cause a larger wound cavity? I large bullet that does not frag just passes right through making a whole the size of caliber.

[CSACANNONEER]

Did you know that while its illegal in California a .22lr can take down a deer? Most people (myself included) use 30.06, .308, or even 7mm. Its all about shot placement and not about the size of the holes. Keep shooting till they go down. -I just finished reading "Lone Survivor" its a SEALS book....they use 5.56 as well. Its all about shot placement.

btw I'm new here, so hi!

First, welcome to Calguns! It's always great to see female shooters here. I agree with you about .22lrs taking deer. The statute of limitations is long pasts, I was a poor, hungry college student and I was rabbit hunting when, out of nowhere, this giant jackalope appeared. To make a long story short, one well placed brain shot was all it took to drop it in it's tracks and give me a freezer full of meat.

[apbrian112]

5.56 makes holes just fine.

+1... i can vouch that 5.56 works just fine if you can get your shot where you want to. also, the low recoil makes follow up shots that much easier. i never had any problems with my issued weapons except the m240b (due to the links corroding).

[dustoff31]

FutureWeapons is nothing more than an extended commercial. It's just advertisements for the products they showcase.

Plain and simple, the guy is a [marketing] tool.

Bingo. Ever notice how most everyone trashing the 5.56 are those who don't have a gov't contract but want one.

There are a great many people who would be happy to testify to the effectiveness of the 5.56mm round. If they were still alive.

[1lostinspace]

Bingo. Ever notice how most everyone trashing the 5.56 are those who don't have a gov't contract but want one.

There are a great many people who would be happy to testify to the effectiveness of the 5.56mm round. If they were still alive.

5.56mm with in frag range is something that most people will not live through.
When they end up on the operating table the doctor takes an X ray and finds a huge whole with frag all around it. Hmmm where do you start?

Body armor is getting better and better, in the future the only chance we will have is to pin point shots and 5.56mm is great for that.

here is the 7.62x39 30 centimeters=11.8" so the round over penetrates and does not have time to yaw!




Here is 5.56mm at 7.9" or 20 centimeters it is in full frag.



and here is Mod1 I mean if you were a doctor where would you start?????

[dustoff31]

5.56mm with in frag range is something that most people will not live through.

When they end up on the operating table the doctor takes an X ray and finds a huge whole with frag all around it. Hmmm where do you start?

Body armor is getting better and better, in the future the only chance we will have is to pin point shots and 5.56mm is great for that.

Well, this all goes back to what we already knew, and others posters have stated here. Shot placement (marksmanship) is more important than the cartridge du jour. In a firefight you seldom get the shot you want, so what, shoot again, ammo is cheap.

[1lostinspace]

Well, this all goes back to what we already knew, and others posters have stated here. Shot placement (marksmanship) is more important than the cartridge du jour. In a firefight you seldom get the shot you want, so what, shoot again, ammo is cheap.

Ammo is cheap lol only in the military, can you believe there are companies selling M855 for about $12 for a box of 20 But yeah marksmanship is everything. a 22LR to the head and a 20mm both equal death! yeah one would make more of splash then the other

[csmintel]

On the contrary....we notice how those that have u.s. gov't-contracts tend to do whatever they can to protect it. even at the cost of u.s. soldier lifes. therefore they trash other calibers and defend 5.56 to keep them AR's coming. if not for buraucracy our army would be better equipped and better prepared for battle with less casualties on our side. had more marines carry new and improved weapons-more of our soldiers would come home alive.
ever thought of that wise guy?

[1lostinspace]

On the contrary....we notice how those that have u.s. gov't-contracts tend to do whatever they can to protect it. even at the cost of u.s. soldier lifes. therefore they trash other calibers and defend 5.56 to keep them AR's coming. if not for buraucracy our army would be better equipped and better prepared for battle with less casualties on our side. had more marines carry new and improved weapons-more of our soldiers would come home alive.
ever thought of that wise guy?

None of these new rounds are effective in FA, further more the weight twice as much, there for you carry less, during the Korean war people ran out of ammo and had to retreat all the time. You are more likely to run out of ammo then shoot someone with 5.56mm and have them just keep running at you.
The lack of stopping power is bad shot placement, if they want to increase stopping power 77SMK is more then enough. There is no reason to switch caliber. A 3 round burst with these new calibers would get you 1 hit the rest would be up and to the right, in 5.56mm you would get 2-3 hits. All the Marines I have talked to coming back all say the same thing everyone I saw get hit was down or crawling on ground hopping they were dead.

[dustoff31]

On the contrary....we notice how those that have u.s. gov't-contracts tend to do whatever they can to protect it. even at the cost of u.s. soldier lifes. therefore they trash other calibers and defend 5.56 to keep them AR's coming. if not for buraucracy our army would be better equipped and better prepared for battle with less casualties on our side. had more marines carry new and improved weapons-more of our soldiers would come home alive.
ever thought of that wise guy?

It goes without saying that any firm would want to protect their contracts. But yes, I have thought about that. And that argument makes no sense to me at all.

First, we are talking about cartridges, not weapons. The big firearms firms would still get the contracts for AR's, or whatever platform, in any caliber, simply because they can do it cheaper. The same goes for cartridge manufacturers.

Second, the US is far from the only country to use the 5.56mm round. Are you saying that all the other NATO countries who build their own weapons, or buy them from non-US sources are in on some US contract corruption. Many of them have tried other calibers, found that they were not happy with them for whatever reason and have gone back to 5.56.

Third. I'd like to see some documented evidence that soldiers are dying because they are or are not equipped with a particular weapon or cartridge. I'm not saying that the 5.56 is the last word, just that new doesn't necessarily mean better. There was a DA study conducted in 2003, that found that most of the complaints about lack of effectiveness of the AR/5.56 came from people who had no personal experience, or had no complaints themselves. They were simply repeating what they had heard from others. Or they expected the enemy to fall down or fly backwards with one shot, often in an extremity.

On the other hand, an entire infantry company from the 173rd Abn Bde was interviewed and had no complaints.

Finally, I refuse to believe that one's inability to put bullets in the right place, due to either a lack of marksmanship skills, or the the environment, will be magically cured by just using a different bullet or rifle.

[CavTrooper]

On the contrary....we notice how those that have u.s. gov't-contracts tend to do whatever they can to protect it. even at the cost of u.s. soldier lifes. therefore they trash other calibers and defend 5.56 to keep them AR's coming. if not for buraucracy our army would be better equipped and better prepared for battle with less casualties on our side. had more marines carry new and improved weapons-more of our soldiers would come home alive.
ever thought of that wise guy?

Please, enlighten us to your credentials.

What experience do you have that leads you to belive the 5.56 is insufficent?

[5968]

I hate how people hunt deer with a bow and arrow.

Why??? I bow hunt and I have killed every deer that I have shot at with one arrow. And no, I have never had to track any of them for miles to find them. It is all about being proficent with your weapon and making shots count.

[1lostinspace]

Why??? I bow hunt and I have killed every deer that I have shot at with one arrow. And no, I have never had to track any of them for miles to find them. It is all about being proficent with your weapon and making shots count.

I have seen deer shot and most drop dead, almost all deer hit with arrows run off and die from a lung shot I don't know anything about bow hunting and could be totally wrong but it appears to be a slow death. Does the meat taste different when harvested with a bow? Does the adrenalin toughen the meat?

Like I said I am newbie when it comes to bows.

[1lostinspace]

On the contrary....we notice how those that have u.s. gov't-contracts tend to do whatever they can to protect it. even at the cost of u.s. soldier lifes. therefore they trash other calibers and defend 5.56 to keep them AR's coming. if not for buraucracy our army would be better equipped and better prepared for battle with less casualties on our side. had more marines carry new and improved weapons-more of our soldiers would come home alive.
ever thought of that wise guy?

So what are these weapons you talk about that put the trusted M16 to shame
And what is the caliber that you think is better then 5.56mm?

I am no wise guy just your average armchair warrior that looks at facts and shoots more then the average person 3-5 times a week and not at just paper but what ever I feel like metal,water,pork,animals or what ever else.
I have shot through 3/4" metal, hit targets past 600 meters, through wood killed animals large and small with 5.56mm. Not many insurgents around here but you never know.

personally I prefer 5.56mm from 100-300 .308 from 200-800 7.62x39 from 100-200