Tactical Excess?

[SilverTauron]

I've had it. Honestly.


My patience with the trendy tactical BS has run out. Let me be clear that training has its place; but people running around a field with MOLLE gear, body armor, and mag pouches with an AR and a drop leg pistol holster are only training to prop up their egos.

There's nothing wrong with having fun at the range, but calling it "training" is doing a disservice to the actual activity. Rifle skills have nothing to do with concealed carry of a pistol under a cover garment. If the government's not in the picture in your neck of the woods, packing up and leaving makes more sense then hunkering down with an AR15 while your family plays backstop.

O, the world's ending and all is collapsing around you? OK. Good luck convincing whoever's operating the last evacuation vehicle to let you and your tacticool gear in. I imagine that convo's going to break down to "come on in, but leave the AR and mags outside".

Otherwise, I hope you can stuff that 500lb safe full of guns on your back for the 100 mile march out of town on foot!

The REAL, actual SF people who use this stuff for a living can do it because they're trained for MONTHS at a time on the US taxpayer's dime. Not 5 hours every month in a field with surplus store ammo. Furthermore, those skillsets exist for one purpose-efficiently murdering the enemy. Not paper targets on a one-sided range.

The person with a single handgun, monthly range practice, and a well rounded education in field medicine with a gym membership will survive a WROL situation a lot longer then some wannabe ninja with a $3000 AR15 and a Special Ops fetish.


Then, when someone does take the tentative steps into gun ownership, theyre bombarded with overwhelming BS about "getting off the X" and "tactical manipulations" . And then gun owning folk wonder why uninitiated people think we're nuts. I can barely comprehend this attitude, and the soccer moms of America will DEFINITELY not like the idea of folks in the woods playing Army with actual rifles. The latter point matters, because the Bambiist soccer moms' votes count equally as much as yours do on Election Day.
Rant over.

[bassbones]

I am sooooo turned on right now....Want to go have sex RIGHT NoW?... Well said. ..

[hkusp]

Truth. Well said.

[Happyhappycamper]

I have zero military experience, I have zero tactical training, but I did watch Blackhawk Down more than once Are you saying that a drop leg holster is a detriment to my ability to stay alive if and when the world as we know it stops functioning? It would seem to me that if a drop leg holster is a good addition for a special forces operator then it would be a good piece of gear for anyone else tasked with carrying a sidearm as well.

I grew up on a farm, killing my own deer, tanning hides, growing my own food etc. I know how to stalk prey and shoot a weapon effectively whether it is a muzzle loader, rifle, shotgun, handgun or bow & arrows. Why should I be limited to the gear I am allowed to use just because I have not trained with it for endless months at a time? I'm willing to bet you are not a professional Indy Car driver, but more likely than not you still have a drivers license and commute to work. By your logic you should hang up your keys and walk because you do not have the extensive training to handle your automobile like a pro.

[pc_load_letter]

I used a drop leg holster in a training class because it is what was most comfortable for me. I do not have a carry permit and no reason for a standard hip holster so if SHTF, I will be stapping on the drop leg holster I have.

After trying out other holsters, it's what worked best for me.

[bassbones]

Bwahahah. That didn't take long. The ninjas are coming the ninjas are coming .. If you take offense to anything the OP said then ... Well..... Here is your sign...

[Happyhappycamper]

No offense taken as I'm not much of a tactical kind of a person, but the logic whether in jest or not seems flawed on a very grand scale.

[osis32]

damn dude how do you have so many posts?

[bassbones]

Not really ... It makes PERFECT sense ... It's like watching the idiots at the mall in full blown authentic gear that OBVIOUSLY do not play for the team....

[Redlinegts]

I don't understand the reason for this rant...

It's ok for the military to shoot at paper targets for months at a time and not civilians? Last I checked, they don't shoot at live people during training...

And what if you do need the skills in case you need to take someone's life to defend your family or yourself?

Who says there will be someone to evacuate you?

While the likelihood of true SHTF, the infrastructure of society is gone, zombies, apocalypse, whatever, etc., is very slim, I don't see how it hurts to know these skills.

To each his own I guess

[Happyhappycamper]

Not really ... It makes PERFECT sense ... It's like watching the idiots at the mall in full blown authentic gear that OBVIOUSLY do not play for the team....

I guess I have missed that, but then again I rarely go to the mall and when I am there I get my business done and GTFO as quickly as possible. I'm assuming this is something similar to the posers we have in the sportbike world. Guys that paint the letterings on their tires and bolt on every piece of anodized medal bling they can afford so they can sit around at the local bike night and brag about all the hardcore riding they never actually did and the whole time they have pu$$y stripes on their tires wide enough to land a plane on

[pc_load_letter]

@Silver,

After reading your post several more times, I am scratching my head as to the true meat and potatoes of the post?

Are you saying that carbine or carbine\handgun courses taken by civilians is a waste of time and money and the takers of those course are wasting their money?

Are you upset at the gear that people wear to the range or to these classes etc?

Are you trying to argue that loading yourself up with tactical gear and trying to bug out will be impossible??

Am I crazy or mistaken if I want to wear a plate carrier (and plate) to a shoot around on BLM land or to a class?

Not sure what your point of contention is.

[Mr. Magoo]

Yawn...

Just like civic's with airfoils and scion's with LED valve stems, just snicker and look away if it bothers you that much. You have nothing to prove, maybe they feel they do.

[retiredAFcop]

There are many practical (as opposed to tacticool) reasons to use a drop-leg holster.

I used to carry my issue M-9 in a drop leg holster on my BDU belt, because then I could take off my LBE or Tac-Vest (was issued both, and chose one or the other depending on orders, mission, season, etc), could wear or not wear my BPV and/or Flak vest, etc. without having to remove my sidearm. The sidearm remained with me not because it was my primary weapon, but because it was my last-resort ranged defensive weapon. That's the "working with vests and gear" side of practicality.

Here's the "working with normal stuff" side of that practicality. The drop leg holster also kept the sidearm below raingear or a cold weather coat, allowing me to have access - while it would sometimes get caught on things, it didn't get caught on things as much as it did when on my waist (try accessing a waist holster while in a seatbelt), and was much more accessible when seated (at a desk or in a vehicle).

For many people, a drop-leg holster may be the easiest and most practical type to use. It's certainly better than either sticking it in your pants, or putting it down every time you need to use your hands.

Accessing a handgun from a concealment holster requires much more training/practice. Unfortunately, most people don't have the option of practicing daily carry of a CCW - that doesn't mean that they shouldn't prepare for a SHTF situation just because they may not be at home when the disaster strikes. Some disasters hit quickly and without warning (earthquakes), others give some time to prepare (or call in sick from work so you can stay at home and be ready).

As with any sidearm, we were taught that the M-9 is a defensive weapon, and a back up to your real weapon.

A handgun is only a good primary weapon if you are up against people who are unarmed, or are armed with improvised weapons that are not as good as your handgun. If you are in a handgun vs handgun situation, you have to hope that your training and reflexes are better.

The person with a few hours of training a month may not be able to match a trained "operator", but will have a tremendous advantage over the person who is armed with an unfamiliar weapon that they have never trained with. A vet who uses a couple of hours a month to retain some of the skills they built up during intensive training during their military career will be even better off - but only if they use equipment similar to what they trained with, or that they are comfortable with. For many vets, that means an AR platform rifle or carbine is their best bet, when it comes to firearms.

Having a carbine, shotgun, or rifle is a much better option than a handgun for protecting yourself, your family, and your neighborhood in most SHTF situations. In some situations, a traditional looking pump action shotgun or hunting rifle may work to your advantage, in others, a more uniform weapons system, where you and your family, friends, and neighbors can share equipment and things like ammo and magazines will be better. While concealed carry may arouse fewer suspicions in some situations, in others it will arouse more suspicions.

In a SHTF situation, when emergency services are not available, and the police can not, or (as in the case of the 1992 LA riots) abandon their responsibilities and will not come to your aid, "hunkering down" in a known location, where you know the people around you, and have resources available (hopefully you've stockpiled a few days to a few weeks of emergency supplies, like all disaster preparedness agencies suggest), may be a better short term solution than moving to an unknown location and surrounding yourself with strangers. After a disaster, with unknown road conditions and major traffic snarls, how far will your car take you? Are you really going to be able to carry the 8+ pounds of water you will need for each day of your evacuation travel? And that doesn't include any of the many other vital necessities that you may need while on the road.

In a SHTF situation, I'm not planning on fighting against the Special Forces, the Army, or even the National Guard. Far more likely is the scenario where I have to protect myself and family from looters, street gangs, or even an unruly mob. In any of these cases, the display of a confidently handled firearm may be enough to cause them to look for an easier target, and leave me alone. If they have sticks and clubs, a handgun may be enough. If they have some pistols and shotguns, I want to have something better. In the Berkeley riots of the '90s, one store owner had great success sitting in the doorway of his shop with a pump shotgun across his lap, and a thermos of coffee that he shared with any police that happened to come by. In LA, the Korean business owners had to actually fire at looters to keep them away.

And don't forget, that "last evacuation vehicle" you mention - it's crew may want someone who is armed and ready to protect it from those who are angry at being left behind, and may see it as a target for their frustrations. Even if they do ask you to leave your gear behind, that's an option you have, if you choose it.

[ocabj]

What's next? Griping about people who to go the range with AR-15s pretending to practice shooting when they aren't even in the military?