AREA 52 #3 - Comments, Suggestions, Ideas

[Stormfeather]

There is always the unforseen, stuff changes, we're a bunch of fiercly independent guys who are (largely) meeting for the first time in person in a remote and inhospitable area to do things that (on a good day) are quite dangerous if focus, concentration and organization are not maintained.

In three days we drove 26 hours, set up a campsite in a place many had never been before, drove across 80 miles of desert (with some guys who had never gone ofroad before) shot at MINIMUM a few thousand rounds through conventional firearms, and at least a clip or two through some FA NFA toys that cost more than most of our cars. We detonated rediculous amounts of 'reactive target materials', burned stuff, chatted around the campfire, ate food, Fought a brush fire, dug some cars out of the mud, chased off an armed drunk guy, slept a bit, and got to meet a bunch of great people.

And at least (as far as I'm concerned) what we DID do was have a S**T load of fun

Yes, I think you summed it up here, we did have fun, and maybe I need to just chill and think of the fun we had! Thanks for reminding me!

[Hopi]

Sounds like fun!

Now, what is this "ammo whoring" I'm reading about? What was Dedeye doing for ammo?!?

[DedEye]

Bill, I wouldn't worry about gripes posted here; look at the scores everyone gave the trip and you'll see we had a great time. It's normal to whine and moan about little things, but it isn't those little things we're going to remember years from now.

Sounds like fun!

Now, what is this "ammo whoring" I'm reading about? What was Dedeye doing for ammo?!?

Standing in line.

Honestly though, I got carried away with the FA weapons and didn't realize that I was using more than my share; once Bill pointed that out to me I retired myself from shooting them.

[MotoGuy]

and at least a clip or two through some FA NFA toys

But none of the the NFA toys took clips, they took magazines

[AJAX22]

But none of the the NFA toys took clips, they took magazines

ok ok Magazines

[cactus]

Hey Bill I agree with Joe we had a great time, met great people, had a great dinner at an awsome place. Bill and every one else that contributed my hats off and thank you! I wouldnt change a thing hickups = life long memories and plenty of campfire stories for next year. If I could rsvp for next year now I would.

[mcubed4130]

Let's see... Shooting my OLL as god intended! SWEEET! Shooting 12g Incendiary Tracer Starburts by mistake instead of Dragon's Breath! NIIICE!! Shooting NFA toys w/silencer - BEYOND man TRULY BEYOND!

So... Why did I rate it only an 8?

1. Perhaps I am a little old school... but... I never leave anyone behind.

* On the way in 2 vehicles get stuck, and another guy is dropping tranny fluid all over the desert floor... and... we have what like?? 5 people that decide to help?? Then when we get the 2 vehicles un-stuck... just me and the 1 guy with the blown tranny seal - are sitting there lugging his stuff onto a trailer; attaching it to my van, and then trying to find camp... uhhmmm... where did everyone go? What happened to many hands make light work?

RECOMMENDATION: The caravan moves at the pace of the slowest vehicle... i.e. we stay together.


2. Coordination of shared resources.

* I've not camped in the desert... well... ever... I had no idea what I needed gear wise; so... I read every last post in the main thread; I had a HUGE extremely comprehensive list of items to bring (thanks to everyone posting their lists and Bill replying to them) - and in a few cases needed even more detail (thanks again Bill!) - I lug all the stuff there... and... well again - no real coordinated help to deal with stuff. Example; I bring both my 10x10 sunshade for me; but also an extra 10x20 sunshade for people to use on the firing line (which is a PITA to bring and a major PITA to setup); but - even after several attempts to get people to help... More or less all I get is everyone is off doing their own thing. I finally just ask my camping neighbor to give me a hand; and he and I put it up over his existing location on the firing line. I brought a 45 gallon water tank; but there really was no place to put it... so I finally just layed out several jugs of water under my 10x20 sunshade - several of you came by and took a drink - thanks! makes me feel like the effort was worth it.

RECOMMENDATION: And I've already seen this said by others (so if I'm repeating take my emulation as the praise that it is). I would think - an overhead rough diagram of all shared resources - how many lanes; how much sunshade; range master tent, hydration stations, etc.. should exist - and be known and printed before arrival.


3. Camping Area, let's bring it together next time.

* Arriving very late (helping bring in the last man out there and his gear); everyone was deployed camping wise in line on a north-south configuration... So - I deployed all my gear in kind... My feet still hurt; from simply walking back and forth to try and meet and greet people. And I know I didn't meet and greet anywhere near all of the people.

RECOMMENDATION: 2 or 3 rows deep of camping areas (this would have also partially solved my #4 below); instead of single file. I didn't even know there was a poker game!


4. Not enough time, by the time everything was setup, it was time to leave.

* Now - perhaps this is my own fault... as I tend to over plan; and over engineer... so first by the time I got all my gear deployed on Friday night - it was close to midnight (but then alot of that was I didn't get into camp till almost 7pm - as noted in #1 above), and never had time to really spend with anyone. Then never doing desert camping before; I didn't realize the blazing hot 180' arc of sunlight; and I had no sides to my sunshades... So... On Saturday I re-deployed all my gear in a east-west configuration (i.e. in front of someone else on the north-south line) - which produced enough constant shade for the 2 of us; to then put all our ice-chests, etc... in the middle between us.

RECOMMENDATION: Not sure here; now that I've been there once I won't make the mistake again, so I will bring sides to my sunshades, and I will take note that the ability to block sun both east and west is critical. But maybe the right answer would be... Next time we do this on a longer timeframe? Or maybe we need a location that I can bring a Motorhome and just drive in and park.

SO... all in all... all I can say is... - When is the next one? I'm ready to go again!!

-M3

[CHIGGA73]

I was one of the trucks stuck going out at the end. I did not once think of it as a PITA. It was part of the trip. An AWESOME Experience all together! My only complaints are for myself and i'll keep them that way. I always look at what i can do for myself to improve the situation before complaining.

If you wanted to participate in things get up and go! i had a great time, and everyone was willing to help those who didn't get to shoot. I gave up my evening ammo to sloguy so that he could shoot more FA stuff. I hope everyone had a even amount of opportunities to shoot.

My wife and I are anxiously awaiting info for next year! (and hopefully a Southern Nevada trip too!)

[packnrat]

and the kicker is i has the trani leak, if not i was about to use the jeep to get the others unstuck.

my jeep has all needed to pull someone out on most anything. even some 250 feet away double lined.

and thanks again to mcubed4130. a class act.
after it all i find out about a poker game.

it will be better next year.



.

[blisster]

1. Perhaps I am a little old school... but... I never leave anyone behind.

* On the way in 2 vehicles get stuck, and another guy is dropping tranny fluid all over the desert floor... and... we have what like?? 5 people that decide to help?? Then when we get the 2 vehicles un-stuck... just me and the 1 guy with the blown tranny seal - are sitting there lugging his stuff onto a trailer; attaching it to my van, and then trying to find camp... uhhmmm... where did everyone go? What happened to many hands make light work?

RECOMMENDATION: The caravan moves at the pace of the slowest vehicle... i.e. we stay together.

I agree with most all of what you summed up there mcubed. My poor 2WD 4Runner barely made it across the Playa, and I had people passing me on both sides and engulfing me in blinding dust. It got pretty hectic at one point, couldn't see more tha 10 feet in all 360 degrees. Then we hit the soft-pack of the playa and I thought for sure we were gonna get bogged down. We passed knucklehead as he bogged down but at that point my engine was revving about 3500 RPS and I was going about 25 mph and didn't dare stop for fear of getting stuck myself.

[DedEye]

Let's see... Shooting my OLL as god intended! SWEEET! Shooting 12g Incendiary Tracer Starburts by mistake instead of Dragon's Breath! NIIICE!! Shooting NFA toys w/silencer - BEYOND man TRULY BEYOND!

So... Why did I rate it only an 8?

1. Perhaps I am a little old school... but... I never leave anyone behind.

* On the way in 2 vehicles get stuck, and another guy is dropping tranny fluid all over the desert floor... and... we have what like?? 5 people that decide to help?? Then when we get the 2 vehicles un-stuck... just me and the 1 guy with the blown tranny seal - are sitting there lugging his stuff onto a trailer; attaching it to my van, and then trying to find camp... uhhmmm... where did everyone go? What happened to many hands make light work?

RECOMMENDATION: The caravan moves at the pace of the slowest vehicle... i.e. we stay together.

Sorry that we passed you . I can't speak for anyone else, but I know in our vehicle we heard someone say follow Dragonfly in and she thought it was Stormfeather, so we all took off. If it weren't for the miscommunication I'm sure everyone would have come help as soon as their cars and trucks were in the clear.

On the way out, 3 trucks bogged down and all 8 of us in the convoy stopped for us to get out and help. Quite honestly it was fun , and it felt good to work together to help them out. Like I said at the time, it was like a desert barn raising.

2. Coordination of shared resources.

* I've not camped in the desert... well... ever... I had no idea what I needed gear wise; so... I read every last post in the main thread; I had a HUGE extremely comprehensive list of items to bring (thanks to everyone posting their lists and Bill replying to them) - and in a few cases needed even more detail (thanks again Bill!) - I lug all the stuff there... and... well again - no real coordinated help to deal with stuff. Example; I bring both my 10x10 sunshade for me; but also an extra 10x20 sunshade for people to use on the firing line (which is a PITA to bring and a major PITA to setup); but - even after several attempts to get people to help... More or less all I get is everyone is off doing their own thing. I finally just ask my camping neighbor to give me a hand; and he and I put it up over his existing location on the firing line. I brought a 45 gallon water tank; but there really was no place to put it... so I finally just layed out several jugs of water under my 10x20 sunshade - several of you came by and took a drink - thanks! makes me feel like the effort was worth it.

RECOMMENDATION: And I've already seen this said by others (so if I'm repeating take my emulation as the praise that it is). I would think - an overhead rough diagram of all shared resources - how many lanes; how much sunshade; range master tent, hydration stations, etc.. should exist - and be known and printed before arrival.

I didn't see you erecting your sunshade until it was already up, otherwise I'd have given you a hand. I saw a lot of folks helping each other putting up tents and shades, but that too probably could have been better planned (perhaps as part of the range safety briefing we all should have said what we had for community use like sunshades, and requested help all at once). Like you said, many hands make light work. Look how fast we got up the MG tent, after all.

3. Camping Area, let's bring it together next time.

* Arriving very late (helping bring in the last man out there and his gear); everyone was deployed camping wise in line on a north-south configuration... So - I deployed all my gear in kind... My feet still hurt; from simply walking back and forth to try and meet and greet people. And I know I didn't meet and greet anywhere near all of the people.

RECOMMENDATION: 2 or 3 rows deep of camping areas (this would have also partially solved my #4 below); instead of single file. I didn't even know there was a poker game!

Another +1. A central fire pit may not have been necessary, but if we had been closer together or in a rough square/rectangle meeting everyone would have been much easier.

4. Not enough time, by the time everything was setup, it was time to leave.

* Now - perhaps this is my own fault... as I tend to over plan; and over engineer... so first by the time I got all my gear deployed on Friday night - it was close to midnight (but then alot of that was I didn't get into camp till almost 7pm - as noted in #1 above), and never had time to really spend with anyone. Then never doing desert camping before; I didn't realize the blazing hot 180' arc of sunlight; and I had no sides to my sunshades... So... On Saturday I re-deployed all my gear in a east-west configuration (i.e. in front of someone else on the north-south line) - which produced enough constant shade for the 2 of us; to then put all our ice-chests, etc... in the middle between us.

RECOMMENDATION: Not sure here; now that I've been there once I won't make the mistake again, so I will bring sides to my sunshades, and I will take note that the ability to block sun both east and west is critical. But maybe the right answer would be... Next time we do this on a longer timeframe? Or maybe we need a location that I can bring a Motorhome and just drive in and park.

SO... all in all... all I can say is... - When is the next one? I'm ready to go again!!

-M3

Motorhome ! Another advantage to sides to the sunshade would be the ability to have a makeshift brass catcher keeping your brass on your tarp.

Honestly though, all you guys complaining about the heat have no idea how comfortable a Dishdasha really is; why do you think I wore one the entire weekend? I put on regular pants on Saturday morning and was back in the man dress in half an hour.

[eijjie33]

it looks like you guys had a great time out there,just wished i tagged along.well maybe next time i'll go if you guys don't mind having a noob

[Someguy925]

Honestly though, all you guys complaining about the heat have no idea how comfortable a Dishdasha really is; why do you think I wore one the entire weekend?

Sounds like you guys should make the Dishdasha required dress to escape from suffering heat. .

[DrunkSkunk]

I was fine with pants and shirt - next time I will bring my shemagh though, definitely needed.

[mcubed4130]

...Honestly though, all you guys complaining about the heat have no idea how comfortable a Dishdasha really is; why do you think I wore one the entire weekend? I put on regular pants on Saturday morning and was back in the man dress in half an hour.

Myself I was surprised it wasn't that hot... and I was quite comfy in the paratrooper pants; and white shirt I was in.

However; my camping area - tools, ice chests, extra ammo, extra guns, etc... were... getting quite toasty sitting in the direct sun - which is why I had to rearrange things.

As PackNRat mentioned; his tent (no sunshade over it) - got so hot; it blew up 4 of 6 soda cans; and made his weapons so hot he couldn't touch them.

-M3