Would you use lethal force?

[AngelDecoys]

The state of California draws the line at YOUR LIFE.... Or more precisely, when the bad guy threatens it... Thats the definition of justifiable homicide.... And if you decide to draw the line lower than that, like shooting somebody who is stealing your property, and who ISN'T threatening you with great bodily harm or deadly force, YOU ARE GOING TO GO TO PRISON, FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

So ask yourself this instead. If you were sentenced to prison for, say 10 years, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PAY TO NOT HAVE TO STAY THERE? It seems to me that if what the thief is stealing is worth less than that amount, it probably isn't worth it.

+1 for the rational response.

I wouldn't go running outside with a gun just because I hear a rustle in the bushes. I WILL, however, arm myself and be cautious. My personal property outside isn't worth my life, so unless I can see someone, or figure out that it is indeed a threat (w/o running outside with a gun and flashlight) I'll take the next step.

+1. Just to add a little. If you hear someone in distress, I would feel its my responsibility to do something over just dialing 911.

[WokMaster1]

I have been reading this forum for a while now, and I am just curious what everyone's take is on this.

The thread about the "shooting in Torrance" got me thinking. Many people have stated that if they hear some strange sounds outside they grab their gun and go investigate.

My question is what would be the point of doing this?

What are you trying to accomplish? So you come across someone stealing you radio in your car. Some kid screwing around trying to steal some petty item from your shack out back. Someone peeking through your trash/window.

So your there with a gun, what do you do.

Point your gun at them and tell them to stop? What if they don't? What if they take a swing at you? Even worse they pull out some weapon.

Is a $200 item worth the confrontation?

I'm not talking about someone breaking into our home late at night. I'm talking about hearing noises outside.

I park my cars in my garage. Even before the car alarm goes off, there'll be the home alarm & 2 dogs all teeth & muscle. Even the dumbest crook will know that their chances of success, though there is very, very slim. Time to move on to an easier target.

If I have to park on the street, my motto is "Can't steal what you can't see." If you have a Bose system in your car in full sight, it's a delicious target. Install kill starters or tracking devices in your car if you worry about your car being stolen.

I don't wish to ever take a human life but if I have to make a choice between my own life or protecting another's and the BG's, I will not even blink.

[Prc329]

If I hear a strange noise outside my house I grab my gun and flashlight. The reason being is I do not know if the person/thing is here to harm me or my family. If there is no real threat then I would not point the weapon at the individual/thing. If there is or a threatening move is made the dynamics change and I will have to live with the next decision I make.

Hopefully it is the right one but I would not take a chance with protecting my children and wife.

[viras]

My property is set up like a fortress, surrounded on all sides by a 5' high brick and stone fence. All of my friends/family must call me in order to be buzzed into the front gate. In fact, no one can even get to my front door or back door unless they jump the fence. Therefore, if I hear a strange noise outside, it's definately an uninvited intruder, trespasser, or an animal of some sort.

Normally, my dogs have a distinctive bark for animals such as cats, racoons, or skunks, however they growl a certain way if they sense unknown people. If I hear a noise outside, AND my dogs are growling in the way that they do, I will definately be armed and ready for whatever unknown's lay outside.

Here's my timeline:

1) I hear a strange noise outside and my dogs are growling.
2) Grab my gun & flashlight.
3) Call the fuzz
4) Turn on all outside floodlights and turn off all interior lights.
5) Interior Perimeter check (check all doors and windows, look outside all windows)
6) Slowly and carefully, proceed outside and investigate noise.

Would I shoot an intruder? Well, it depends on the situation. If he's brandishing a weapon in a threatening manner, you're damn straight I'd shoot him. If it's some punk gangbanger or some stupid kid stealing my property, I'd shout a warning, and then attempt to subdue/restrain them if they tried to run. I believe that we should all do our parts to keep our neighborhoods crime free. I want the trespasser arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If the fuzz are too slow to respond, I'm the type to perform a citizens arrest.

I didn't pay for 4 years of Ju-Jitsu and 5 firearms to sit there idly and let some asshat try and steal my crap.

[Timberwolf]

Would I use lethal force - depends on threat level but if warranted yes.

[fal_762x51]

Use sparingly.... When I got my CCW, I tried to mentally prepare myself for the slim chance of killing someone. The only time I'll use it is if someone is posing a direct threat to my life or the lives of others. Most thieves, like the ones who tried to violate my station wagon beast mobile ran when I came out with a maglite. I always have my firearm ready, but if they run and do not pose a psychical threat to me, it's just not worth it. Catching them (whether a citizens arrest or by the police) and punishing the by chopping a hand off sounds just.

[bigmike82]

I've never understood the concept that your property isn't worth defending with lethal force. Property rights are the most fundamental elements to a free society, and allowing any tom, dick and harry to steal it without being willing to defend it seems foolish to me.

Property isn't just your stuff. It's more than your TV or your radio. It's an investment of your life that you will never get back.

Practically speaking, it's tough to justify shooting someone who is unarmed and stealing your car radio. But that's because of the laws and the legal system here, in this state. In my opinion, no owner should ever have to stand idly by and allow a criminal to steal property. It's not right.

[draconianruler]

I've never understood the concept that your property isn't worth defending with lethal force. Property rights are the most fundamental elements to a free society, and allowing any tom, dick and harry to steal it without being willing to defend it seems foolish to me.

Property isn't just your stuff. It's more than your TV or your radio. It's an investment of your life that you will never get back.

Practically speaking, it's tough to justify shooting someone who is unarmed and stealing your car radio. But that's because of the laws and the legal system here, in this state. In my opinion, no owner should ever have to stand idly by and allow a criminal to steal property. It's not right.

+1 Unfortunately the legal system deters the use of lethal force. Too bad we're not in TX

[Eric_Oh]

Lethal force - i'll stick to the law and shoot when my life or those of others are in immediate danger.

Property - i would not shoot just because a guy was running down the street with my toolbox in hand.

That being said... if i hear my car alarm go off, i'm out the door with my 220 or xd. I'd keep my handgun away from view either stuck in a pocket or under a shirt. I'm not about to scare the sh** out of my neighbor because he is drunk and trying to stumble his way to his front door. Nor do i want to end up like the guy in the torrance shoot with a bunch of dept issue hollow points up my *$$.

I work hard to make a living and i value my belongings, and i will not sit idly by while someone attempts to rip me off. I will step out and confront him. I take my handgun not with the intention of putting him down, but rather in case he's armed and tries to put me down.

On a humorous side note, a retired Pasadena PD Sergeant told me a story about a lady who took one knee to put in into a robber's behind as he was running out and across her lawn. lol.

[Bizcuits]

Surprisingly I'm not made of money...

Someone stealing my car means I don't go to work, means I can't pay my bills, means I can't eat, means I can't live where I'm not. Means your gonna screw up my life for my car?

If I hear someone breaking into my car, I'm coming outside. If they choose to run away fine, if they choose to get on the ground fine, if they choose to attack me FINE (this would be the only reason I'd use force). They were the ones who decided their life was worth my car, NOT ME. I've chosen my life is worth theirs.


Does this mean I'm going to run out guns a blazing? No, because the guy inside my car, may just be a cop who found my vehicle broken into and is looking for registration, so he knows who to contact.

[M. Sage]

The state of California draws the line at YOUR LIFE.... Or more precisely, when the bad guy threatens it... Thats the definition of justifiable homicide.... And if you decide to draw the line lower than that, like shooting somebody who is stealing your property, and who ISN'T threatening you with great bodily harm or deadly force, YOU ARE GOING TO GO TO PRISON, FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

So ask yourself this instead. If you were sentenced to prison for, say 10 years, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PAY TO NOT HAVE TO STAY THERE? It seems to me that if what the thief is stealing is worth less than that amount, it probably isn't worth it.

Most people will pay MILLIONS of dollars if they have it to pay a lawyer for a CHANCE to STAY OUT OF PRISON.... They will mortgage everything they own, and most still end up behind bars. Run up to Frontera and take a poll. Ask "How many of you would pay $200.00 to get out tomorrow morning?"

I have been threatened with lethal force. And I responded in like kind. And it was the easiest decision I ever had to make, because it truly was THEM or me... Would I do it for $200, or $2000 or $2,000,000. NOPE.

The question he was answering was "is a $200 item worth the chance of getting into a situation where you might be forced to defend yourself with lethal force?" Not "is a $200 item worth using lethal force over?"

$200 is a fair-sized chunk of my life. Paper money is a way of "trading" life back and forth. My skills, my sweat and my time are my life, and those are the things I use to get more money. So stealing my stuff is stealing my life, a little at a time.

I'd investigate. I plan on doing little more than yelling and driving the person away. I'm not going to go looking for a fight, whether it's a gun fight, knife fight or fist fight, but if someone decides that my $200 car stereo is worth killing me over, I won't hesitate to defend myself to the best of my ability.

I'm not going to use force to stop someone from stealing, but if they offer a fight when I tell them to stop, I plan on winning.

Let me add... I'm not exactly raking in the dough. $200 is a largeish chunk of change for me. And how I get that money isn't exactly easy. Because of the work I do and have done, I've got mild hearing damage, a disc in my back is messed up, my hands are continually covered in scratches, cuts and scrapes, and the skin on the backs of my hands is dry from washing the oil off. The palms and fingers of my hands are covered in very thick callous. I haven't had a blister on my hands in more than ten years these things are so thick.

My money or my life!? My money is my life.

[ibanezfoo]

Point your gun at them and tell them to stop? What if they don't? What if they take a swing at you? Even worse they pull out some weapon.

Then I hope I have the stones to pull the trigger.

Is a $200 item worth the confrontation?

In my opinion, its not the cost of the item but the fact that the item belongs to me, period. I did not give them permission to take it.

Read the death penalty thread... I believe thieves should die.

-Bryan