AR15 / 5.56 for pigs?

[Divernhunter]

Someone has allot to learn

[dieselpower]

Someone has allot to learn

I know you are not talking about me. I took my first 6 point at age 14, with a 12ga from 3 yards away. That was early 70s. My next two were with bows one stand, one blind. My next was with a 308 from 150 yards from a stand. My next 5 were all with an AR15. Two iron sight, two scope, 1 RDS. I have taken 2 pigs with the same rifle....and more rabbit then I can count.

My BiL only hunts bow or black powder. All of my cousins use shotguns. When I tell them I use a rifle, they say that isnt hunting...thats just killing.

Everyone has their own take on hunting...but don't even think the .223 isnt enough to bring down a boar.

I was going to (and did, then deleted) post the pig extermination video on youtube, but that again isnt hunting...its just killing. But try to say that AR15 isnt capable of dropping a pig after seeing the shooter drop 79 pigs in less than 45 minutes.

Deer cry, and kick and freak out when shot with an arrow..don't even tell me its not feeling pain and an arrow is humane yet a .223 isnt.

I was on a bear hunt. The shooter shot the bear square in the chest with a 300...for the next 30 minutes (which seemed like hours) we tracked the bear by the sound of it crying out in pain. We found it sitting up against a tree. The shooter shot it again in the head. It was sad, but that is hunting.

HUNTING HURTS ANIMALS...GETTING SHOT HURTS ANIMALS... THEY CRY IN PAIN, THEY TWITCH IN PAIN, THEY FREAK OUT DUE TO PAIN...WITH ANY FIREARM. GET OVER IT NOW IF YOU PLAN ON HUNTING < this comment is directed at anyone who is reading this and has never killed an animal for food or sport.

[ECG_88]

I was taught in hunter safety class that you shoot the animal, see that it went down, then wait like 10-20 mins before you go up to it, then shoot it again if needed. I think the point was to let them bleed out and lose consciousness in peace instead of freaking them out by seeing their killer bear down on them for execution. Also they wont get back up and run as far if you wait a little.

But I havnt hunted anything bigger than squirrels and birds yet, so let me know if you know better.

[Cowboy T]

What say you for oink oink? Thanks...

I agree with those who say that shot placement, and using the proper bullet for the application, are what make the difference. Greg Rodriguez, a professional hunter and guide, has killed big bull elk with a .270 Winchester at distances nearing 400 yards. He dropped an eland bull with a .308 Winchester. The bull elk went 50 feet or so, and the eland dropped where it stood.

With the proper bullet and proper shot placement, the .223 Remington has the velocity to do massive damage to the lungs/heart to a 250-lb pig. A .22-caliber bullet going slower than that, I wouldn't try it. You need the speed to get that shock wave that does the job on the innards.

If your bullet's going slower, then it needs to be bigger. That's why the .44 Magnum rifle (e. g. a Rossi 92 or Ruger 96/44) is so effective against game at the closer distances...and, again, with the right bullet and proper shot placement.

[Divernhunter]

Dieselpower---I actually was talking about you. EXCEPT---Somehow(probably my old computer) all of my post did not show up. I had written: That was about the use of FMJ bullets on game being not legal as was posted in some comparison in other posts. Only expanding bullets were legal.
But since you were willing to jump on me I will tell you that you have much to learn also about hunting/firearms. Yes you have killed some game. By the early 70's I had killed over a dozen deer,5 pronghorns, 1000's of squirrels and rabbits. Too many dove,quail,pheasants to count etc. I have also been hunting since, an awfull lot in and out of state. Having killed well over 100 deer and much other game. I hunted with rifle/ pistol(3 deer-1 hog and small game)/Black powder(rifle and pistol--big and small game) and bow only a couple of deer. So while you are rattling your cage about how great of a hunter you are you just might stop long enough to find out that others just may have been hunting successfully and possibly for a longer peroid of time. This is NOT to put you down just to make you stop and think that while you have your thoughts others may just have some that do not agree with you and may just be valid ALSO. If it has been good for you then great but I assure you "I" have seen it all go south myself using too light of a firearm OR more than the shooter can handle. I was raised on a cattle ranch not in some city which is just a part of northern mexico myself. I hunting something just about everyday on the ranch. Squirrel troubles and just about anything in season including ducks on the creek of the ranch. Hunting the now D6 area with a 2-10% success rate over the years I killed at least one buck every year for 22 years when I hunted the area.That is a pretty good run. Years ago you could get 2 tags for the zone and they were both filled each year. I have not hunted it for a number of years. After not hunting D6 I took my daughter up for the day and killed another buck a number of years ago. I only hunt public land.

How do you like it when someone comes off as high and mighty like you do? Put you into your place---get you mad?? Not my reason for the above. MY POINT is accept others comments even if they do not seem to fit you. Just as I accept your comments on the subject even when I see the holes in your reasoning besides the high ego stuff. So lighten up and your thoughts are welcome BUT so are others. There is room for all of us. This is the type of stuff that causes us firearm owners/hunters to be so easy to screw over in politics. We are fragmented too much. I know allt about firearms/hunting/shooting/reloading but I am always willing to listen/discuss nicely to others veiws as I just might learn something I did not know OR teach something I do know.

[dieselpower]

Dieselpower---I actually was talking about you. EXCEPT---Somehow(probably my old computer) all of my post did not show up. I had written: That was about the use of FMJ bullets on game being not legal as was posted in some comparison in other posts. Only expanding bullets were legal.
But since you were willing to jump on me I will tell you that you have much to learn also about hunting/firearms. Yes you have killed some game. By the early 70's I had killed over a dozen deer,5 pronghorns, 1000's of squirrels and rabbits. Too many dove,quail,pheasants to count etc. I have also been hunting since, an awfull lot in and out of state. Having killed well over 100 deer and much other game. I hunted with rifle/ pistol(3 deer-1 hog and small game)/Black powder(rifle and pistol--big and small game) and bow only a couple of deer. So while you are rattling your cage about how great of a hunter you are you just might stop long enough to find out that others just may have been hunting successfully and possibly for a longer peroid of time. This is NOT to put you down just to make you stop and think that while you have your thoughts others may just have some that do not agree with you and may just be valid ALSO. If it has been good for you then great but I assure you "I" have seen it all go south myself using too light of a firearm OR more than the shooter can handle. I was raised on a cattle ranch not in some city which is just a part of northern mexico myself. I hunting something just about everyday on the ranch. Squirrel troubles and just about anything in season including ducks on the creek of the ranch. Hunting the now D6 area with a 2-10% success rate over the years I killed at least one buck every year for 22 years when I hunted the area.That is a pretty good run. Years ago you could get 2 tags for the zone and they were both filled each year. I have not hunted it for a number of years. After not hunting D6 I took my daughter up for the day and killed another buck a number of years ago. I only hunt public land.

How do you like it when someone comes off as high and mighty like you do? Put you into your place---get you mad?? Not my reason for the above. MY POINT is accept others comments even if they do not seem to fit you. Just as I accept your comments on the subject even when I see the holes in your reasoning besides the high ego stuff. So lighten up and your thoughts are welcome BUT so are others. There is room for all of us. This is the type of stuff that causes us firearm owners/hunters to be so easy to screw over in politics. We are fragmented too much. I know allt about firearms/hunting/shooting/reloading but I am always willing to listen/discuss nicely to others veiws as I just might learn something I did not know OR teach something I do know.

I will PM you my reply. Simply put for the public...You attacked me, by saying I had things to learn. I defended my position showing I wasn't some kid and had experience.

In actuality its you who have things to learn. I now real;ize its because no one has ever shown you the advancements in ammo. Old dogs can learn new trick...but only if they are taught...

You place emotion in what people write while you read it, I will tell you now I was not mad. When someone says something stupid, I don't get mad, I explain where they are wrong. Many times I end up having to write the same thing a dozen times because a dozen new posters say the same ignorant thing as the first guy.

PM inbound...

[cannon]

Pigs are pretty tough critters. I would not be comfortable hunting them with a 223/5.56. I just don't feel this caliber has the penetration and wound channel for the job.

I'd be a much happier hunter with a 30-06 or similar. I want that hog to drop like a rock when I hit him.

[dieselpower]

Pigs are pretty tough critters. I would not be comfortable hunting them with a 223/5.56. I just don't feel this caliber has the penetration and wound channel for the job.

I'd be a much happier hunter with a 30-06 or similar. I want that hog to drop like a rock when I hit him.

Many people have that opinion, those people also shouldn't bow hunt pig / deer...for an arrow doesn't have that penetration YOU REQUIRE either.

I get that aspect of this debate...what I do not support is the one way logic of..."well with a bow you have to know how to aim and hunt...blah blah blah, but a .223 isnt good enough because blah blah blah.."

Its 100% myth and ignorance that perpetuates the argument that the .223 isn't a deer / pig round.

I will ask you this... Do you support a hunter who says he is going to shoot at a deer 1500 yards away with a 30-06?
Will the 30-06 round guarantee a kill at that range?
What factors are you now considering before you answer me?
Can not those same factors be used to determine if a person can use an arrow or .223 on that same game, but at a closer range?

I know scores of hunters who feel scoped 30cal+ rifles taking game is NOT Hunting...that is Gathering. There is little skill involved over simply going to the range, knowing how to place a shot and simply replacing that paper target 300 yards away for a live animal. Its like a canned hunt, just adding a few hundred yards.

Hunting with a bow, shotgun, black powder or .223 takes a measurable amount more skill. Sure you can sit in a tree all day waiting for game like a tunnel spider, but again you need to have skill in knowing where to place your stand, and also visualize the internals of your game as it presents itself to you then to know where to place your shot.

[Anti-Hero]

So who's cartridge is longer?

[cannon]

Many people have that opinion, those people also shouldn't bow hunt pig / deer...for an arrow doesn't have that penetration YOU REQUIRE either.

I get that aspect of this debate...what I do not support is the one way logic of..."well with a bow you have to know how to aim and hunt...blah blah blah, but a .223 isnt good enough because blah blah blah.."

Its 100% myth and ignorance that perpetuates the argument that the .223 isn't a deer / pig round.

I will ask you this... Do you support a hunter who says he is going to shoot at a deer 1500 yards away with a 30-06?
Will the 30-06 round guarantee a kill at that range?
What factors are you now considering before you answer me?
Can not those same factors be used to determine if a person can use an arrow or .223 on that same game, but at a closer range?

I know scores of hunters who feel scoped 30cal+ rifles taking game is NOT Hunting...that is Gathering. There is little skill involved over simply going to the range, knowing how to place a shot and simply replacing that paper target 300 yards away for a live animal. Its like a canned hunt, just adding a few hundred yards.

Hunting with a bow, shotgun, black powder or .223 takes a measurable amount more skill. Sure you can sit in a tree all day waiting for game like a tunnel spider, but again you need to have skill in knowing where to place your stand, and also visualize the internals of your game as it presents itself to you then to know where to place your shot.

If you'll take a moment and re read my post. I only spoke to my opinions and feelings. I did not correct or demean anyone elses opinion or hunting style.

I hunt for meat. Unlike many out there I do not need/want/enjoy making my hunt harder by using bows, black powder, sharp pointy stick or a sling shot.

Do I care if someone else does? Not in the least. I have no problem with anyone hunting in the fashion they enjoy as long as they make clean kills and do not waste the meat.

Lighten up and quit being so snotty and argumentative.

[mcmikeblues7]

There is a guy here on calguns who has taken a bear with his .223 ar
i dont think it is a very bad choice, I would much rather have a .243, but with a good heart/lungs shot on a 40-130 pound pig i would feel very comfortable.

[Oneaudiopro]

Hmmm

I've hunted pigs for over 40yrs and have used various calibers from 30-30 to .357 magnum. For the last few years I have used my .223 and it works extremely well. As a couple of previous posters have stated, shot placement is crucial for a clean kill. I know of 1 hunter that shot a pig 5 times with a 45-70 and he was shocked that I used a .223.....................go figure. A little more range time and he would have had better luck.......lol. There's always controversy regarding caliber selection for hunting and there is always those uneducated individuals that think you need a 50bmg for squirrels, but just ignore those idiots and make your first shot count.
By the way, the best place to drop a pig in its tracks is a head or neck shot. A body shot you're taking your chances.

[dieselpower]

If you'll take a moment and re read my post. I only spoke to my opinions and feelings. I did not correct or demean anyone elses opinion or hunting style.

I hunt for meat. Unlike many out there I do not need/want/enjoy making my hunt harder by using bows, black powder, sharp pointy stick or a sling shot.

Do I care if someone else does? Not in the least. I have no problem with anyone hunting in the fashion they enjoy as long as they make clean kills and do not waste the meat.

Lighten up and quit being so snotty and argumentative.

yup... as in way I bolded "Your requirement"...and why I offered others requirements and views on this issue.... you need to lighten up yourself. just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are snotty and argumentative. This was a debate thread...which means each poster offers content adding to or contradicting the other posters....

[mif_slim]

Haha, all these experts jumps in saying .223 isn't ethical. Past 10 years I've used .223 for deer to bears and have no problems with 1 shot drops. My father just bagged a deer last weekend on a 185 yard shot to the neck. DRT.

Am I promoting using .223? No, you HAVE to know the animal AND your rifle.

[dieselpower]

Original Post
Four cylinder cars for fuel economy?

Poster A, No way, they are too slow and you can't go off roading in them.

Poster B, No way, you dont save much gas over a small block 8 cylinder since you have to use a manual transmission and rev the RPMs up to get up to speed.

The rest of us who have kept up with modern firearms and don't live in a fantasy world , The modern 4 cylinder engine is nothing like it was 40 or even 20 years ago. You naysayers need to re-educate yourselves on this issue.

Are we saying you can go 4-wheeling in a Mazda-3? NO. We are saying the new Focus is nothing like the 1970s Chevette.

oh and since hunter is on my ignore list... I don't care if you were in Nam, or what trouble they are now having in the sand box or back then with the 5.56... THIS THREAD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH LONG RANGED COMBAT OR COMBAT WITH A 1/12 TWIST USING CRAPPY POWDER AND PROJECTILES NOT SPECIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURE FOR COMBAT.