Open carry at Newport Beach-Update

[jpigeon]

UOC is the biggest preventable threat to gun rights at this time.

I don't like anything threatening our gun rights.

Sorry but the CA voter base in demoncrat districts are the biggest threat to our rights. I know that is preventable because I was once a demoncrat. But never a hardcore lefty. How do we get folks on the RIGHT voting track????

[jpigeon]

Which was the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY that there has ever been a victim disarmament bill? OK, got it.

If you're going to tweak my quotes, be accurate. Otherwise you really do earn the moniker of "Everything Is UOC's Fault Guy."

That is a good user name Everything-is-UOC's-fault-guy

[scarville]

That is a good user name Everything-is-UOC's-fault-guy

Are you feeling down? Is the state of the word depressing you? Do you fart at dinner? Do you hurl profanity at the newscasters on TV? Do you suffer from erectile dysfunction? Did your wife leave you for a better woman?

Blame UOC
Blame UOC
Fools! shielding their loved ones
With empty little guns
Blame UOC
Blame UOC

[locosway]

Spoke with officer Sandborn of the NBPD. He says the PD has been UOC trained, "BUT" they treat all gun calls like "gun calls." I guess that means they are not gonna walk up, shake my hand, and thank me for helping them deter crime in the community. Not sure about the school thing so I think I am gonna wuss out on this location. I know opinions are like a-holes, but I think the only way to get the police use to UOC is by practicing it, and if we have to, by taking legal action when 4A rights are violated. Thanks for all the input on the matter. Hope I did'nt offend any 1 with my sarcasm. I would'nt say anything on here that I could'nt say to anyones face and I know u guys can respect that.

Extra special thanks to those who offered to record. I am lacking in that techie department. Maybe we can hook up at a better location.

There is a school literally on the beach in NB. This doesn't mean you can't avoid it, but you might have to get your feet wet if you were trying to start on the North end of NB and walk South along the boardwalk.

[DVSmith]

So jpigeon... how did it go? I didn't see you on the local news this morning.

[EBR Works]

Don't any of you realize that once UOC gets banned it's going to be harder to fight for LOC?

We might wind up with CCW only or a license required for LOC.

The problem with UOC is that it is only "not illegal". Carry rights have not been through the courts yet. UOC is not recognized as a right. It can be taken away and if it is it might take a trip to the Supreme Court of The United States to get it back (and we might not even win).

Why risk that?

If we have to go back to SCOTUS, I want to fight for LOC, with UOC already protected.

My fear is that I may have to leave California if I ever want to LOC in an urban area. Don't make that a reality.

^^ This. Timing is everything.

[BGY]

Keep up the fight for CCW; Where I am, UOC and CCW is in effect. And I can say this; In five years I have seen no more than three instances of UOC in practice in all my travels throughout my state. By the way; we jokingly label UOC as "SMF" (Shoot Me First) and carry concealed or not at all. In my opinion, sadly, UOC labels the practioner the "bad guy" by both sides. As for your desire to make a statement, not to disparage your concept of freedom to exercise a right, but all I can gleen from your effort, especially from your "test" venue, is the potential entertainment value of the outcome of your little experiment.

[Flintlock Tom]

Interesting difference between second amendment supporters and "progressives". Progressives don't shoot their wounded.

[QQQ]

The thread says "update". How did it go?

[N6ATF]

The update is in the OP. In his own words, he "wuss(ed) out".

[Ronin2]

I live in Newport Beach about a mile and a half from the pier. I do not know why you want open at the pier where there are lots of bars, drunks, tourists, kids, sometimes gang bangers all coming together to enjoy a day at the beach.

I know a number of the patrol officers on the peninsula as well as several watch commanders. They are all well trained professionals trying to keep the melting pot of people who use the beach safe. All the alcohol served in the pier area and the crowds of beach goers make your choice a poor one.

Part of being a RESPONSIBLE gun owner is to not inject firearms in a place where its inappropriate and will at the very least create concern and a disturbance among the uninformed. You WILL deal with NBPD because that pier area is a center of activity for the city's PD and on nice days it is saturated with officers to make sure everyone can enjoy the beach and the city's amenities safely and peacefully. YOU WILL be disturbing the peace and, as NB resident, I would ask you to make your statement elsewhere.

We need to be seen as repsonsible adults but the non gun owning public!!!!

[BGY]

The update is in the OP. In his own words, he "wuss(ed) out".

I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume he came to his senses...

[CitaDeL]

YOU WILL be disturbing the peace and, as NB resident, I would ask you to make your statement elsewhere.

We need to be seen as repsonsible adults but the non gun owning public!!!!

Disturbing the peace is an crime which is specifically defined by the penal code;

Fighting, noise, and words...doesnt say anything about open carry or firearms.

And oddly enough, you have accurately grasped what UOC is... A First Amendment issue. While you may not like it, it's why we have our liberties enumerated by the Bill of Rights. And demonstrating them in a responsible manner is why many practice open carry as a form of civil obedience (strict adherance to the law) or protest.

[Ronin2]

Disturbing the peace is an crime which is specifically defined by the penal code;



Fighting, noise, and words...doesnt say anything about open carry or firearms.

And oddly enough, you have accurately grasped what UOC is... A First Amendment issue. While you may not like it, it's why we have our liberties enumerated by the Bill of Rights. And demonstrating them in a responsible manner is why many practice open carry as a form of civil obedience (strict adherance to the law) or protest.

Oddly enough you fail to grasp REALITY and are a danger to our rights. Open carry of your weapon on a sunny clear day at a crowded beach, full of tourists, families, drunk drunk bar patrons and police officers trying to keep everyone safe, while currently legal is not responsible. In fact, assuming an issue was created by the Open Carry that day, the most likely end would be the Newport Beach city council passing a municipal code specifically making Open Carry illegal within the city, that would preclude one from OC in places and times where it is appropriate. In fact the event would probably also be noticed by the surrounding cities of Huntington Beach and Laguna Beach who also thrive on tourism and need to make the "people" feel safe, would probably legislate against Open Carry as well to "keep the beaches safe for families!

HOW DOES THAT HELP OUR CAUSE? IT DOES NOT accomplish anything but continued inflation of the SELFISH EGO's of a few Open Carry activists IMHO! Contrary to the old saying, not all press is good press in this particular fight!

As always, constitutional issues are not just legal but also political issues. In politics, PERCEPTION IS REALITY. No matter how justified one is in an action, convincing a majority of the observing citizens that is is dangerous, unnecessary or "wrong" and you end up losing in the long run.

There is a time and place for everything. Making the right statement at the wrong place and/or time is more harmful than doing nothing. If you are so "obsessed" with your righteousness that you can not see that, you are as dangerous to the second amendment as the gun grabbers are.

Winning generals pick and choose when and where the battle will occur. Like a chess player, they are looking at the possible ramifications from multiple moves ahead in a variety of directions. Please dont be blindly charging ahead in just one direction no matter what. We need to be chess players in this battle not checkers players!

In a battle where the people can be whipped up into a frenzy by your opponents and vote your rights away, PERCEPTION IS REALITY. Doing STUPID UNNESSISARY things to make your point does nothing but play into the hands of your enemies! Dont choose to win little battles and lose the war!

[CitaDeL]

Oddly enough you fail to grasp REALITY and are a danger to our rights. Open carry of your weapon on a sunny clear day at a crowded beach, full of tourists, families, drunk drunk bar patrons and police officers trying to keep everyone safe, while currently legal is not responsible. In fact, assuming an issue was created by the Open Carry that day, the most likely end would be the Newport Beach city council passing a municipal code specifically making Open Carry illegal within the city, that would preclude one from OC in places and times where it is appropriate. In fact the event would probably also be noticed by the surrounding cities of Huntington Beach and Laguna Beach who also thrive on tourism and need to make the "people" feel safe, would probably legislate against Open Carry as well to "keep the beaches safe for families!

HOW DOES THAT HELP OUR CAUSE? IT DOES NOT accomplish anything but continued inflation of the SELFISH EGO's of a few Open Carry activists IMHO! Contrary to the old saying, not all press is good press in this particular fight!

As always, constitutional issues are not just legal but also political issues. In politics, PERCEPTION IS REALITY. No matter how justified one is in an action, convincing a majority of the observing citizens that is is dangerous, unnecessary or "wrong" and you end up losing in the long run.

There is a time and place for everything. Making the right statement at the wrong place and/or time is more harmful than doing nothing. If you are so "obsessed" with your righteousness that you can not see that, you are as dangerous to the second amendment as the gun grabbers are.

Winning generals pick and choose when and where the battle will occur. Like a chess player, they are looking at the possible ramifications from multiple moves ahead in a variety of directions. Please dont be blindly charging ahead in just one direction no matter what. We need to be chess players in this battle not checkers players!

In a battle where the people can be whipped up into a frenzy by your opponents and vote your rights away, PERCEPTION IS REALITY. Doing STUPID UNNESSISARY things to make your point does nothing but play into the hands of your enemies! Dont choose to win little battles and lose the war!

Here we have the 'chicken or the egg' arguement. Which came first?

As applied to rights and the exersize thereof, it seems that you believe that rights are bestowed upon people and can be taken away as punishment. Such things in fact are not rights, but privileges. These privileges only appear after one has surrendered themselves at the disposal of another power, such as government (or the wishes of another, like a finger-wagging anti-gunner.)

How then, does one preserve rights by not invoking them? You vaguely allege that 'the right people' pick and choose when and what battles they fight. Where do you think these battles come from? Do you think the Nordyke's were too audacious for conducting gun shows in Alameda County? How about the people applying to the Yolo County Sheriff for a license to carry concealed- were they too 'in your face' with wanting to carry a firearm? How about Dick Heller- was it too much for him to want a operable firearm in his own home?

You have to ask yourself, where did these battles come from? Did Alan Gura send Dick Heller and Otis McDonald out to be denied by the authorities?

Nope. They have rights, and had the desire to exersize them. By the attempt and being told 'no', they had standing to be a plantiff in all these cases.

There can be no significant changes in perception of gun owners without some conflict. While I agree that organizing large demonstrations at Starbuck's to go toe to toe with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence isn't particularly productive, I don't see anything inherently wrong with individuals lawfully carrying for protection in the places where they live. (Particularly if they have applied for and been denied a LTC by the issuing authority in their area.)

So, a municipality decides to ban open carry. Or the state decides to ban unloaded exposed carry. The peripheral effect on those who do not open carry is negligible... but if it does affect gun owners as a group, it creates an opportunity to recannonize 'keep and bear' either through unintended consequences or a direct assault in the courts.

If you don't like open carry, you dont have to do it. If it makes you feel better, you can always call your representative and your local police and complain.