great, now i am rethinking my 9mm purchase

[E Pluribus Unum]

OK.

What kind of game are we hunting with a 9mm where the additional 6" of penetration means the difference between a full tummy or going hungry?

Ever shot game with a .45?? The .45 does its job very well. That fat piece of lead hits the meat, expands, and really tears it up. The 9mm makes a nice clean hole and goes right through. The effect is two fold:

On tough animals like wild hogs, the extra penetration helps the smaller diameter round penetrate and be deadly. Not to say that a .45 is not equally or even more deadly than the 9mm, but the extra penetration helps the 9mm be more deadly than other rounds of similar dimension (38s in a snub nose for example).

On deer, the .45 easily penetrates and goes completely through just like the 9mm, but the damage it leaves behind is much worse. More damage= less usable meat. 9mm ball does not mushroom like a 45 does and it does not transfer as much energy to the animal meaning there is more usable meat.

With small game like gray squirrels, the 9mm wins hands down. Ever shot a gray squirrel with a .45? Not much left afterwards.

So... because 9mm ball does over-penetrate, it actually makes it a better hunting round in my opinion due to the fact that it causes less damage, but still has the penetration to kill thick-skinned animals.

If your target is two-legged and one needs the most damage, then use hollow point expanding ammo. It really can be a decent compromise.

As I said, if all you need it for is personal defense, the .45 is the way to go. If you want something cheap to shoot for hunting and occasional self defense, then the 9mm is a great alternative.

[mxadam579]

if i was ur lapd swat buddy i would only carry a .50 bmg round no matter where they get hit it will stop them...

[UserM4]

Federal HST

I'll take capacity, less recoil, and cheaper ammo.

[J-cat]

Ever shot game with a .45?? The .45 does its job very well. That fat piece of lead hits the meat, expands, and really tears it up. The 9mm makes a nice clean hole and goes right through. The effect is two fold:

On tough animals like wild hogs, the extra penetration helps the smaller diameter round penetrate and be deadly. Not to say that a .45 is not equally or even more deadly than the 9mm, but the extra penetration helps the 9mm be more deadly than other rounds of similar dimension (38s in a snub nose for example).

On deer, the .45 easily penetrates and goes completely through just like the 9mm, but the damage it leaves behind is much worse. More damage= less usable meat. 9mm ball does not mushroom like a 45 does and it does not transfer as much energy to the animal meaning there is more usable meat.

With small game like gray squirrels, the 9mm wins hands down. Ever shot a gray squirrel with a .45? Not much left afterwards.

So... because 9mm ball does over-penetrate, it actually makes it a better hunting round in my opinion due to the fact that it causes less damage, but still has the penetration to kill thick-skinned animals.

If your target is two-legged and one needs the most damage, then use hollow point expanding ammo. It really can be a decent compromise.

As I said, if all you need it for is personal defense, the .45 is the way to go. If you want something cheap to shoot for hunting and occasional self defense, then the 9mm is a great alternative.

You know, there is not much difference between 9mm ball and 45 ball in terms of wound size. That extra swallow of deer is insignificant when we're talking about 50+ pounds of meat.

That 1" of flatter trajectory is insignificant at pistol ranges.

That faster recoil recovery is insignificant in the field.

You are arguing insignificant factors. The only advantage a 9mm has is carrying capacity and penetration though metal, neither of which matters when hunting.

Good Night.

[E Pluribus Unum]

You know, there is not much difference between 9mm ball and 45 ball in terms of wound size. That extra swallow of deer is insignificant when we're talking about 50+ pounds of meat.

That 1" of flatter trajectory is insignificant at pistol ranges.

That faster recoil recovery is insignificant in the field.

You are arguing insignificant factors. The only advantage a 9mm has is carrying capacity and penetration though metal, neither of which matters when hunting.

Good Night.

My experience would suggest otherwise. I have a .45 and a 9mm, and I see significant differences in the ability to hit a moving target at longer distances, and the damage to the meat from a kill.

How much hunting have you done with both calibers? I have been hunting with both for many years.

[J-cat]

I have shot rabbits with both. Not much difference in terms of usable meat remaining. Yes, the 45 wound track is bigger, but not enough to ruin precious meat.

[mif_slim]

Uh Huh.

(note to self - ignore anything mif_slim says in the future)

Sweet! LOL.

[gn3hz3ku1*]

dont worry since you live next door to swat.. just scream like girl and he will be right over if he is home....

[ZX-10R]

Have both...Who ever owns one or two guns? I am considering my first handgun soon after just shooting rifles. My concerns are cost to shoot and desirability. 9mm is great for because when I go to the range I don't shot only 40 rounds in 2 hours I shoot hundreds through my rifles. So that is what my 9mm would be for. I am want a 45 for home defense and shooting but know the ammo is stupid $$$ since a friend has a Ruger...I would still shoot it but know it is for every other range visit maybe whereas the 9mm is for every visit. Either one will kill someone so I am not worried about that...I am worried about...Ready business majors...COST OF OWNERSHIP. 9mm for the win but if you have the $$$ get both. I am looking at a S&W 9mm and for a 45 the Remington 1911 that just came out.

Another analogy...People said AR AR AR AR...Well, I went through a couple a hundred rounds with my AR this weekend and loved the accuracy. So guess what...I have both an AR and and AK so I can say with opinion both have their strong points and weakness...The key is to buy both 9mm or 45 or whatever combo you are interested in.

IF cost of ownership (aka if you are BROKE) is a priority then get the 9mm.

[Napalm Bulldog]

Buy one in every caliber your interested in. Never hurts to have more htan one choice available in your collection.

[1911_sfca]

Kinda, but not really. I bought a SA XD 9mm and I like it. I bought it for fun shooting and also for self defense. I chose the 9mm because ammo is cheap and they are easy guns to shoot and control.

My neighboor, who is LAPD SWAT, told me he wouldnt touch a 9mm with a pole in a gun fight. He says he has seen guys shot with a 9mm and they dont even flinch.

I know the odds of me getting in a gun fight are extremely thin but I wanted some stopping power if I needed it. Now I am thinking its too small.

Dont mention shot placement either. That whole line is garbage anyway. No one can control shot placement in a street gun fight spur of the moment.

The key is getting some quality 9mm ammo. I am partial to Gold Dot 124gr +P. That's what NYPD uses, and I was asked to fire off a round during an AR15 class, when we were doing hydrostatic shock tests. The instructor was surprised and very impressed.

Modern +P HP rounds *will* make you flinch and get your attention.

[dwa]

this the same lapd swat that thinks aks fire anti tank rounds.

[orangeusa]

Shoot him with it and then ask him if he thinks its good enough.

^^^ +100 ^^^

And I have pistols of all 3 calibres - 9mm, .40 and .45. Guess which one gets all the trigger time? 9mm.

Your tacticticool SWAT guy is probably a mall cop.

Expanding ammo and shot placement (9m and above) are FAR more important in stopping power than caliber. I'll post the one-shot stop if ya want. BUT .45, .40, 9mm are in the %80-89 range with expanding bullets. 60-65% with FMJ.

That assumes you HIT the guy. Shot placement under pressure is trained by the Military and all law enforcement, so am surprised you say - "nobody can control shot placement in a gunfight". Why do they train under stress???

.

[-hanko]

My neighboor, who is LAPD SWAT, told me he wouldnt touch a 9mm with a pole in a gun fight. He says he has seen guys shot with a 9mm and they dont even flinch.

If he's such a Tier I-tactical-operator, ask him why he's still in LAPD SWAT.

I can do this-one-summer-in-band-camp stories with you all day.

The real secret is where the bullet ends up v. where you aim. This improves by shooting a lot of bullets.

-hanko

[gotime]

you wind up in a firefight you will not be thinking "Target ID'd, 25 meters aim high, heart shot, steady, steady...BANG!" Your line of thought will be more "Oh ****! Target! BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG click click click click..."

it's called MUSCLE MEMORY. You think an NFL quarterback in the Super Bowl game is thinking "take hike, fall back left foot right foot left foot, lift arm, etc etc."??

what you're saying makes NO SENSE. why else would you practice? if this were the case, me against a trained Navy Seal with his issued 226 (9mm of course) would be a coin flip...