great, now i am rethinking my 9mm purchase

[VictorFranko]

Ok were talking two different things.
No one will be able to pull off a controlled headshot when someone is unloading into their position.

Sorry CW, I can't find where the OP or I mentioned "a controlled head shot."
The OP said "No one can control shot placement in a street gun fight spur of the moment."
Controlling "shot placement" and "a controlled head shot" are two completely different things, and IMO, the OP is wrong to say nobody can control "shot placement in a gun fight."

[TMC]

Shoot him with it and then ask him if he thinks its good enough.

[FUBAR]

Train to shoot center of mass. Thats where I'll be placing my shots and the low recoil of the 9mm makes it that much easier. Anyways, most defensive firefights in an urban environment is 3 to 5 yards. If the distance was any further, I would much rather run from the incident. I'm not gonna stay around and try to make a 25 yard shot in a critical situation.

[shootin]

Sorry CW, I can't find where the OP or I mentioned "a controlled head shot."
The OP said "No one can control shot placement in a street gun fight spur of the moment."
Controlling "shot placement" and "a controlled head shot" are two completely different things, and IMO, the OP is wrong to say nobody can control "shot placement in a gun fight."

I would say that "very very very rarely DOES someone control shot placement in a street gun fight".

In America most people using a gun to defend themselves probably have already found themselves on the receiving end of some deadly force before they fire back. If anyone out here is able to be fired upon by some crazed gunmen and have the poise and wherewithal to stop, slow down, breathe, and stand still enough to fire and hit the head or center heart then I would say BS.

When it comes down to it 95% of shots are spray and pray.

[dieselpower]

just like the guy who said he would rather have a rock then a gun he had to carry unloaded.

you get all types of idiots in the world.

another gem I hear a lot for LEO....the .380 leave a 9mm sized hole, so its the same thing, carry .45 or nothing else.....a 5.56 is the same size as a .22...its the same thing so rifles need to be 308 or nothing....

[xxsleepyxx]

yea you made the wrong choice buddy. 9mm doesn't even exist anymore you got an obsolete gun LOL you can't even buy ammo anymore they don't make it

[Maddog5150]

Kinda, but not really. I bought a SA XD 9mm and I like it. I bought it for fun shooting and also for self defense. I chose the 9mm because ammo is cheap and they are easy guns to shoot and control.

My neighboor, who is LAPD SWAT, told me he wouldnt touch a 9mm with a pole in a gun fight. He says he has seen guys shot with a 9mm and they dont even flinch.

I know the odds of me getting in a gun fight are extremely thin but I wanted some stopping power if I needed it. Now I am thinking its too small.

Dont mention shot placement either. That whole line is garbage anyway. No one can control shot placement in a street gun fight spur of the moment.

Aks your know it all neighbor how many guys he has personally shot with a 9mm, put it down, picked it up and shot the guys clone in the same exact spot with a 40 cal.
I have in front of me actually the report of that 18 year old kid who was swiss cheesed by 40cal and kept reloading and shooting cops. He was eventually swiss cheesed by ARs and they still had to fight to get him down. Oh yeah, he wasnt on drugs either. He was just really effing pissed. Wierd **** happens when metal moves really really fast. FBI statistic shows that with all duty calibers, the average gun fight lasts 3 rounds.

[Cokebottle]

Shot placement is more important than caliber.... unless you're talking something in the .50BMG range where the hydraulic shock simply obliterates the target like a 7.62 going through a squirrel.

There is no such thing as "stopping power" or "knock-down power"
One of four things are going to "stop" or "knock down" an attacker:
1 - Shot to the central nervous system.... brain or spine
2 - Bleed out (shot to the heart or aorta)
3 - Shatter his pelvis
4 - He's hit and fears being hit again.

#4 does not apply to attackers that are amped up on drugs.

The 9mm is more than adequate for any of those 4 if the bullet hits the right spot.

[IrishPirate]

so what your saying is that you shouldn't worry about where you're shooting because in a gun fight you can only spray and pray......i'm sorry but that's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. The reason you practice is so that you will be able to shoot and hit center mass through muscle memory. Going to the range every once in a while isn't good enough, and you're right, you probably wouldn't be able to hit anything while you're pissing your pants because someone is shooting at you. But that's you. Me, i'm going to practice and learn to keep calm and focus my shot, that way i'll be have the best chance of surviving should i ever get in a "gun fight". 9mm is more than effective if you leave your mall ninja attitude at home and learn how to use your weapon effectively.

[J-cat]

Ask your buddy how his .40 penetrates concealment. .40 and .45 is good for stopping a bad guy, but 9mm penetrates better and is a straighter shooting trajectory. If all you are going to shoot is for personal defense and you are wealthy enough to buy the ammo, the .45 is the way to go. For almost ANYTHING else, I actually prefer the 9mm. For a hunting round, there is no other handgun round with as good long distance trajectory and cheap ammo.

9mm cannot be beat for cheap, reliable, straight-shooting ammunition. With hollow point self defense rounds, they are not that bad.

Straighter trajectory? OK. That's really important when considering a sidearm. And that hunting potential! I guess I'm going to have to starve cuz my 45 will never reach a deer outside of knife range.

[DaveFJ80]

There's nothing wrong with talons or XP ranger or federal HST.

Fixed it, as Federal Hydra-Shock has been proven to not penetrate through certain clothing materials, and is not effective as current JHP HST ammo.

He says he has seen guys shot with a 9mm and they dont even flinch.

I'd like to see how a bad guy will hold up to 19 rounds of 9mm JHP HST (that's what I keep in my Glock). Even if you miss half of them, that's still quite a bit of hard rounds going into a person, regardless if it's slightly smaller in diameter than a .45 JHP round.

[VictorFranko]

I would say that "very very very rarely DOES someone control shot placement in a street gun fight".

In America most people using a gun to defend themselves probably have already found themselves on the receiving end of some deadly force before they fire back. If anyone out here is able to be fired upon by some crazed gunmen and have the poise and wherewithal to stop, slow down, breathe, and stand still enough to fire and hit the head or center heart then I would say BS.

When it comes down to it 95% of shots are spray and pray.

Proper and on going training gives you the poise and wherewithal to conduct yourself as necessary in a gunfight.
If you truly think that "Spray and Pray" is going to get it done for you in a gunfight, I suggest you take up ping-pong.

[IrishPirate]

If you truly think that "Spray and Pray" is going to get it done for you in a gunfight, I suggest you take up ping-pong.

[mif_slim]

Haha, I never said the 9mm wasn't a bad round. I just didn't like it. I'll take a 22lr over nothing anyday, but I just perfer a larger caliber even thoug most handgun rounds so about the same in ballistic test.

Even though physic wasn't on my side on that day, I know what I saw and I know what happened.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Straighter trajectory? OK. That's really important when considering a sidearm. And that hunting potential! I guess I'm going to have to starve cuz my 45 will never reach a deer outside of knife range.

Do not put words in my mouth; I never said any of that.

Most people are capable of shooting tighter groups at long distances (50+ meters) with a 9mm; compare the ballistics and the lack of recoil.


9mm advantages:
Straighter trajectory (less bullet drop over distance)
Less recoil
More penetration

THAT is what I said; if you diagree with any of that, please say so.