...

[dwa]

To dwa,

Maybe you can make your point yourself instead of directing me to read the 242 page manual that you attached to your post.

i want to help you expand your knowledge of counter insurgency, and why having inscriptions on the sides of acogs is a bad idea. General Petraeus wrote and FM i sure if you leaf through it much of the information will coincide with your personal beliefs of what should be done and statement you have made being already fully educated on the subject.

[luvtolean]

But the pocket of government designed, printed and owned money that says "IN GOD WE TRUST" that same soldier carries, the President swearing in on a Bible, "God" directly referenced in many of our early important documents doesn't matter...right.

This whole thing has been an abject lesson in ridiculous.

If we want to worry about our reputation as crusaders, maybe we, a Judeo Christian based, and majority populated society, should not invade countries in the Middle East. Well that, and not elect Ivy League, history degreed presidents who mention "Crusade" in an early speech about the war to Congress...

We are what we are. "JN8:12" on the side of a rifle sight didn't make us this way, and taking it off isn't going to change the fact.

Another loss of reason and individuality in our great land.

[sreiter]

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

what part of that is everyone missing ?

[JeepsRcool]

Hmmm..I wonder if the scopes with the bible quotes will become hot selling items?

I read it as only items sold to the military will be missing the code's, civilian models should still get them.

[B.D.Dubloon]

I wouldn't have minded seeing Trujicon show a little gumption in this issue, but as usual, profit considerations trump all.

[run8]

I'm going to ruffle feathers, but this is the progressives and liberals that want to take everyones rights and religion from anything to do with gov't, they are more concerned about not offending the people that want to kill us!

Well I'm glad I have two ACOGs with the verse references on them

[John Browning]

We're done as a functioning nation with a common culture to defend. This country is so far off the path the founding fathers laid for us that I sincerely hope a state has the courage to leave the union and become what America used to be.

[bigmike82]

Would it be acceptable to have Koranic inscriptions on the bottom of a soldier's pack? Would it be okay to have a Wiccan verse on the canteens, and something from the Talmud on the helmet liners? What about a satanist inscription on the BDUs?

This is much ado about nothing in the sense that it isn't important. The media circus and the outrage is ridiculous. This should have been handled very simply by a purchasing General from the Pentagon calling Trijicon and telling them that biblical verses on the optics are not okay, and to change it.

[Deadbolt]

I read it as only items sold to the military will be missing the code's, civilian models should still get them.

I hope so.


As i mentioned before : Im agnostic, but only because i view organized religion as an anti thesis to itself.

Theres really no room for someone like me who believes in god but cant swallow the tyranny being preached.


Anyway - I REALLY hope they didnt re-tool and are still making these sites

[Noraku81]

I like how you order lunch, but I'll take the Independent Burger, hold the Jesus Sauce, extra meat and extra freedom of choice


with a side of corporate identity.

Come to think of it, i do like your side orders!

[Hooligan]

I was disappointed that Trijicon caved so easily. I would have much rather seen them tell .gov to stuff it- If you don't like our product don't buy it!

Other than that much ado over nothing- by folks with nothing better to do in the midst of a war.

[nacholibredooche]

When will the Calguns "brass" zap this thread?

[turbochris]

I always wondered what those numbers on the side of my acog ment now I know. trijcon should have just stood up for what they believe in.

[bwiese]

For this action to be a violation of the Constitution, the action has to be by the government not a private company.

The gov't used tax dollars to purchase a device with a religious message. It slipped thru inspection/approval, that's all.

Now Trijicon - not the US Gov't - likely will have to pay support costs for dealing with this BS. It shows Trijicon failed the big reality test. If this were a publicly-traded company heads would roll because someone was promoting an interest other than fiduciary/profit.

No serious company does this crap. Can you imagine IBM servers with a "Jesus saves" on the nameplate, or Cisco routers quoting a Bible verse? They'd go broke - or purchase orders would specify a change order, "take that crap off".

"...the company put a cryptic biblical verse on their product and no one knew about it including the government." This was known for
quite some time by many, it just took time to move up the ladder. I even emailed Trijicon ~2 yrs ago (to no avail).

[kcbrown]

The gov't used tax dollars to purchase a device with a religious message. It slipped thru inspection/approval, that's all.

There's a reason it slipped through the approval process: the references in question are quite subtle. Someone who wasn't familiar with the Bible would not know that the references in question were Biblical references at all.

(For those of you who haven't seen what's being referred to here, an example of what's printed on the scopes is:

REFLEX1X2-2COR4:6

)


This is very, very different from printing some obviously religious inscription on the product, like, say, "In God We Trust".

In fact, I think it would be very instructive to see how people react to products sold to the government that have that very inscription on them, considering that it can be found on every piece of currently-circulating U.S. currency. I expect the hypocrisy revealed would be immense.


If you've read what I've written in other threads you'll know that I'm not religious at all, and would certainly have a problem with blatantly religious messages being stamped on products purchased by the government. For instance, I find it somewhat objectionable that our currency has "In God We Trust" written on it, because that statement is unambiguously religious.

But this? This is nothing, even for me. It's far too subtle and unobtrusive to matter, except to those who insist on not seeing anything they find objectionable as a result of their own interpretation of someone else's words. Such people are precisely the people who do not understand what the right to free speech is really all about: the right to say things that others find objectionable.


If it can be shown that the U.S. government gave Trijicon the contract for these scopes in part as a result of these inscriptions, then, and only then, one can say that what happened here was improper. Otherwise, I believe this is merely a vast overreaction on the part of people who tend to overreact to everything they find even mildly objectionable. In other words, by the very same people who brought you and who are supportive of "politically correct".