Micro Roni Legality

[Citadelgrad87]

My thoughts are that there is no written letter from the ATF stating the Micro Roni (with the stabilizer) is completely CA "legal". There is an ATF letter addressing the "cheeking/shouldering" of the brace while firing but nothing I can find addressing the issues that are being debated on-line regarding the wording in the Penal Code.

In short, too many opinions from well-meaning mere mortals and no definitive answers from those who lord over us to be worth the risk. At least, for me; a well-meaning mere mortal!

ATF cannot tell california that something is California legal.

[Quiet]

What about the issue of the barrel shroud?

Reference:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=20054568&postcount=26

So the question I am now asking is regarding the quoted post which is hypothetically why it is NOT legal. If DOJ is made aware of this video and there is no legal action taken does that mean it IS legal and it is not considered a barrel shroud?

IMO...

With an excellent lawyer, the "shroud" issue [PC 30515(a)(4)(C) and 11 CCR 5471(jj)] could be bypassed/dropped.
^Arguement that it encircles the slide, which encircles the barrel, and since it doesn't directly encircle the barrel; it shouldn't meet the definition.
~It doesn't really make sense, but neither to CA gun control laws. So, this could be gambled on to be a non-issue (depends on you & your lawyer's comfort level).

But, the "second handgrip" issue [PC 30515(a)(4)(B) and 11 CCR 5471(gg)] would still apply.
^All versions of the Roni has a section that can be used as a "second handgrip".

In either case, the Roni kit installed on a semi-auto pistol with a fixed 10 round magazine is still CA legal.

It's legal to sell the part, because it's on the buyer to install that part in such a manner that it makes a CA legal firearm.



Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Divison 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(gg) “Second handgrip” means a grip that allows the shooter to grip the pistol with their non-trigger hand. The second hand grip often has a grip texture to assist the shooter in weapon control.
(jj) “Shroud” means a heat shield that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the shooter to fire the weapon with one hand and grasp the firearm over the barrel with the other hand without burning the shooter's hand. A slide that encloses the barrel is not a shroud.

[protohyp]

The slide is a barrel shroud.

Most likely the Glock Store has AW permits so they can run anything they want as they sell worldwide.

[ef9boy88]

Just a matter of somebody being the test case

[Scratch705]

What about the issue of the barrel shroud?

Reference:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=20054568&postcount=26

So the question I am now asking is regarding the quoted post which is hypothetically why it is NOT legal. If DOJ is made aware of this video and there is no legal action taken does that mean it IS legal and it is not considered a barrel shroud?

all definitions of a barrel shroud is something that is "attached" to the barrel of the firearm and encloses it completely.

even in the PC

(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

does the barrel opening on the micro roni fit this description?

is it in any way attached to the barrel, completely or partially? no, the handgun as a whole is attached to the roni, but that is legal, the opening for the muzzle blast and letting the bullet fly out and to prevent the slide from hitting anything is not in anyway touching the barrel at all.

does it completely encloses the barrel? no, barrel is "exposed" (under the slide that is).


in the end it is up to how your lawyer wants to interpret it and how the arresting officer/DA wants to interpret it.

But, the "second handgrip" issue [PC 30515(a)(4)(B) and 11 CCR 5471(gg)] would still apply.
^All versions of the Roni has a section that can be used as a "second handgrip".

they have a micro roni version that using a SB brace on the rear and thus doesn't have a front grip. it has a gripping area like an angled foregrip but isn't that determined to be legal since it isn't a forward pistol grip? (at least for featureless rifles) and there is no way to install a vertical grip since it doesn't have a pic rail

[SAD338]

It seems like this has been a repeating thread but given how confusing this particular issue has been, I don't mind the dupe. Plus, I'm interested in getting one.

[Quiet]

they have a micro roni version that using a SB brace on the rear and thus doesn't have a front grip. it has a gripping area like an angled foregrip but isn't that determined to be legal since it isn't a forward pistol grip? (at least for featureless rifles) and there is no way to install a vertical grip since it doesn't have a pic rail

For semi-auto pistols a "second handgrip" is restricted. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)]

A "second handgrip" can be angled, horizontal, or vertical. It's basically any grip or area on the handgun, where the non-trigger hand can grip the handgun.

So, that angled portion on the Roni in front of the trigger meets CA's definition of a "second handgrip".
Which makes it restricted on a semi-auto pistol that does not have a fixed magazine. (it's legal if the semi-auto pistol has a fixed 10 round magazine)


The "second handgrip" is why pistols like the Browning Buck Mark Varmint is considered an assault weapon in CA.
(it has a horizontal forward grip, which is a "second handgrip")

[deephouse]

[KrisDSA]

Who said this was filmed in CA n not a more gun loving state

[ACfixer]

I don't think they guy ever claims it's legal (once installed) in California. As per the stuff Quiet quoted, I don't see how it can be.

[Scratch705]

For semi-auto pistols a "second handgrip" is restricted. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)]

A "second handgrip" can be angled, horizontal, or vertical. It's basically any grip or area on the handgun, where the non-trigger hand can grip the handgun.

So, that angled portion on the Roni in front of the trigger meets CA's definition of a "second handgrip".
Which makes it restricted on a semi-auto pistol that does not have a fixed magazine. (it's legal if the semi-auto pistol has a fixed 10 round magazine)


The "second handgrip" is why pistols like the Browning Buck Mark Varmint is considered an assault weapon in CA.
(it has a horizontal forward grip, which is a "second handgrip")

i thought the second handgrip has to be able to be clasped like a vertical grip?

this was to get all those sub-machine gun like stuff like mac 10's and uzi's off the streets since they typically has a strap hanging off the front end that you can grip to help control recoil?

if even just a "gripping area" counts as a second grip, then what is stopping them from classifying all long barrel pistols in CA that has a pic rail as a "second gripping area?" or those who add grip texture to the front area of their pistols?

[lexanidubs09]

I've wanted one for a while now and they're a lot of fun... It's not worth the risk to me, however. This topic comes up pretty regularly and there's never a real clear consensus on whether they are legal or not. If you're willing to be the test case I'd say go for it.

[protohyp]

Who said this was filmed in CA n not a more gun loving state

because we know the glock store has its own range and everything gets filmed down there

[ugimports]

Who said this was filmed in CA n not a more gun loving state

In the video he says "Here in my indoor gun range in San Diego...." (paraphrased) and then proceeds to test fire..

[ugimports]

I don't think they guy ever claims it's legal (once installed) in California. As per the stuff Quiet quoted, I don't see how it can be.

No he doesn't mention anything about legality. However, I'm assuming he believe it is since he's filming it installed and demonstrating it in his indoor gun range in San Diego.

My original question is/was if this is submitted to the DOJ and no action is ever taken then it may put to rest all of the assumptions in this thread about what the status is.

We know DOJ is actively pinching people for sending in pics of their accidental AWs and getting busted for it. If they have the time for that, I would guess they have the time to follow up on this if they truly felt it was an AW.