Best training available

[hambam105]

MCRD Parris Island, or MCRD San Diego if Boot Camp issued sun tanning lotion is important to you.

Jeff Copper's, The American Pistol Institute has my vote.

[230infantry]

Army infantry, lots of options, plus they pay YOU.

[Jimi Jah]

Time, the best investment for shooters. How did all those instructors figure out all that stuff the first time? Use your head.

[fiddletown]

Time, the best investment for shooters....

Time doing what? How? A lot of folks spend a lot of time doing things poorly and become experts at doing thing poorly. They never seem to get it right.

...How did all those instructors figure out all that stuff the first time?....

They worked together and tried things together. They measured performance and saw what worked and what didn't. They talked among themselves, trained with each other, trained each other, and continued to pass on what they collectively learned.

Many top instructors, like Clint Smith and Louis Awerbuck got their start at Gunsite.

....Use your head.

Many people do. Perhaps that's why I see so many people at the range who can't hit a target.

You have only one head. When I take a class at Gunsite I have the benefit of at least three heads -- the range master for the class and two instructors. They'll have in the aggregate more experience than I could acquire on my own in a couple of lifetimes. And they've had the benefit of the classes they've taken (and taught) and the instructors they've had.

[hambam105]

C. Smith and the Late L. Awerbuck's level of training professionalism is the gold standard.

Hitting your target consistently with absolute reliable firearms at the right time doesn't appear to be the main object of shooting these days.

If you can't hit your target than make the target bigger and move it in closer. Malfunctions are so common place they are now range socially expected and accepted.

Now you're the mean guy for not accepting rationalizations for poor performance and subpar equipment.

[unusedusername]

Malfunctions are so common place they are now range socially expected and accepted.

Actually, modern autoloading pistols are much more reliable then the ones of ye-olden-times.

Back before computer controlled manufacturing, guns were all made by exclusively by hand. The small tolerances in pistols like the 1911 meant that many pistols were finicky. You'll find references to this in the police publications when they discussed the idea of switching from revolvers to the 1911 in the 70s.

It took Gaston Glock both significantly undercutting the revolver manufacturers and also using new computer-controlled manufacturing to get the reliability up to get law enforcement to switch off the revolvers.

The military did issue the 1911, however they issued primarily rifles. You'll find many examples of expert pistol marksman in the military preferring revolvers over the 1911 for reliability reasons. It's interesting to see that this practice has completely gone away now that the modern 1911s are made on CNC machines.

The reason malfunctions are taught in modern classes is that a malfunction is a thing that happens occasionally. It's a good practice to know what to do about them when they happen.

[RandyD]

I have avoided professional firearms trainers. I got my start shooting, as a 7 year old kid, on my grandparents' ranch, with a .22. Shooting sparrows was a service my grandparents appreciated, because they would nest in the farm machinery and were just pests and nuisances. I would take out a sparrow with a shot and then have to walk .5 mile to where the flock flew to escape me, so I did this back and forth exercise and learned to make my shots count and got good enough to shoot sparrows on the fly with a .22 (there were no other people around so shooting in the air at birds was acceptable). In high school, I received free marksmanship training from a local gun club, that provided weekly training for teenagers to learn how to shoot in smallbore and high power competition. After high school, I spent 8+ years in the Marine Corps and they provided me with training, and then I was in Marine Force Recon where we did a lot of shooting. After the Marine Corps, I attended the San Diego Police Academy, and was the high shooter in my graduating class. During all of this I have been an avid hunter and enjoyed plinking with my .22. The idea of paying someone to teach me how to shoot is a foreign concept. Shooting is fun. There is trial and error, but your errors are learning experiences.

[fiddletown]

.... The idea of paying someone to teach me how to shoot is a foreign concept. Shooting is fun. There is trial and error, but your errors are learning experiences.

You had a lot of professional training. You just didn't pay for it. Us taxpayers paid for a lot of it.

[tanks]

... The idea of paying someone to teach me how to shoot is a foreign concept. Shooting is fun. There is trial and error, but your errors are learning experiences.

One of the most precious commodities I have is time. I'd rather learn from those that have already made the errors and learned from them than to struggle and waste time trying to figure things out on my own. Yes, it is important to be able to self correct, but one needs some knowledge before one gets there.

Biggest problem one has when trying to learn things is to identify the errors in order to correct them.

I'll give you an example. In one of the classes I took there was a LEO with 20+ years experience and a trainer of other LEOs. We started by establishing an accuracy baseline at a target at 10 yards. His 20 shot group was basically one hole. Then we set up three rectangles on an 8" by 11" paper. Shot the first rectangle at shot per second, second at half a second and third at 0.25 per second or faster. Once we passed the second mark his groups opened up tremendously. Reason was his grip. For years in order to past POST etc., he had a loose grip for trigger control to give him accuracy. That grip would not support faster shooting. At the end of three days of training he was on his way to be fast and accurate. This he would not have realized without professional instruction.

[bronco75a]

You had a lot of professional training. You just didn't pay for it. Us taxpayers paid for a lot of it.

You're dismissing his self taught training. And I would submit to you if he didn't join those organizations he'd still be a decent shot. And why the dig with the "US taxpayers paid for a lot of it." No one prevented you from doing the same thing.

[fiddletown]

You're dismissing his self taught training....

Self taught training is necessarily limited. If you go it alone, you will go only as far as whatever natural talent you have will take you. If you have a great deal of natural talent, that might get you fairly far. But no matter how far you might be able to get on your own, good coaching will take you further.

Champions in pretty much every endeavor become champions in part because they have the necessary talent. But they also have coaches to develop that talent to its full potential -- so they become and remain champions.

...And why the dig with the "US taxpayers paid for a lot of it." No one prevented you from doing the same thing.

I don't begrudge anyone an opportunity to learn at taxpayer expense when he is doing so as part of providing a public service. That's not the point.

But RandyD said:

.... The idea of paying someone to teach me how to shoot is a foreign concept....

But the reality was that people were paid to teach him to shoot. It just wasn't him paying them.

[hambam105]

I'd say the taxpayers got their moneys-worth out of RandyD.

[fiddletown]

I'd say the taxpayers got their moneys-worth out of RandyD.

I'm sure we did.

[IVC]

Self taught training is necessarily limited. If you go it alone, you will go only as far as whatever natural talent you have will take you. If you have a great deal of natural talent, that might get you fairly far. But no matter how far you might be able to get on your own, good coaching will take you further.

^^^ This.

If you have kids, do you put them to play sports in a league with coaches and referees, or do you give them skates, stick and a puck and tell them to go have fun because they'll figure it out eventually?

Or, ever wonder why Johnny Weissmuller was the first man to swim 100 meters under a minute, but now any high school kid on a team can do it easily?

[CinnamonBear723]

Best training i've received was at the police academy