Delay in firearm purchase

[jzadivar]

OP, read the first sentence of pc28220 [4] I posted again. Any "delay" of delivery on the part of DOJ, already denotes an "undetermined" status. When the 30 day clock runs out on a "delay", FFL can and should deliver.



Unless they receive a "Denied Status" prior to the 30 day deadline.



It is not required by any law, that he also receive an "undetermined trigger" statement from DOJ before releasing your firearm to you.



That 30 day clock, is clearly shown on the DROS purchaser copy. Top left corner. As the "Latest Delivery Date/Time", right down to the hour and second.

Thanks Pacrat,


Unfortunately the FFL says he needs a number or something before he can release.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pacrat]

Do FFLs have a way to communicate with DOJ other than the ****ty number we get that's nothing but automated messages?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To answer your earlier question. Yes, they do. Which will not help you at this time. Tomorrow Fri. is a State Holiday. Then weekend Sat/Sun. Earliest he could get an answer, if at all, is Monday.

Unfortunately the FFL says he needs a number or something before he can release.

I suggest you politely ask him to show you exactly where in the Penal Code dealing with firearms DROS transfers. That it says he must have a "number or something" to release.

When he can't, because it isn't there. Show him PC 28220 [4] that says "He may then immediately transfer". Granting him "immediate permission to release" because it is there.

If he persists in his refusal to release. Which is a denial of your right to your lawfully purchased property. A blatant extralegal personal requirement not sanctioned by written law. You have the right to sue him in civil small claims court. Because at that point he chose to cross the line from FLAKE to TURD. He is not protected by either Ca PC or Contract laws. But you are.

Refer him to this link from the California Association of Federal Firearms Licensed Dealers Org.

http://www.calffl.org/wp-content/upl...2014-02-07.pdf

Having trouble with the link when copied and pasted. Use this CG link to thread that contains the link.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-891256.html

Jason Davis is the attorney for the CAL-FFL org. Any Ca FFL, if they want to stay abreast of the ever changing legal requirements to do business as a FFL in Ca. Should be a member of CAL-FFL.

[jzadivar]

FFL says it is still on delay. Today is the 30 day. This is annoying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jzadivar]

He says the status needs to be triggered to undetermined before he can release.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pacrat]

He says the status needs to be triggered to undetermined before he can release.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The FACTS are yours to use as you choose. He is wrong and is basing his decision to deny you your lawfully purchased firearm on faulty information.

Ask him where he got the fictitious info he is basing his decision on. Likely other ignorant TURD FFLs.

Show him the actual text of PC 28220 [4] and ask him exactly where it says what he claims it says. He Can't.

Also print out the CAL-FFL memorandum from Jason Davis Esq. And show it to him.

Stand up, or lay down, choice is yours.


JM2c

[ke6guj]

the FFL does have to get a "number" from CADOJ to be able to release on an undetermined. reason being, the existing DROS number that he has is more than 30-days old and federal law requires that a "valid" number be listed on the 4473 that is less than 30-days old.

[pacrat]

the FFL does have to get a "number" from CADOJ to be able to release on an undetermined. reason being, the existing DROS number that he has is more than 30-days old and federal law requires that a "valid" number be listed on the 4473 that is less than 30-days old.

Would you please share the USC section that deals with this 4473 requirement?

I find it rather ludicrous that Feds would in any way hold a FFL, or a buyer, in anyway responsible for the legendary incompetence of Ca DOJ-BOF desk weenies.

Ca. is one of very few states that even has a DROS type system run by a state DOJ. And the majority have no State required waiting periods, or reporting, at all.

[ke6guj]

its 27 CFR 478.102

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.102

(b) Transaction number. In any transaction for which a licensee receives a transaction number from NICS (which shall include either a NICS transaction number or, in States where the State is recognized as a point of contact for NICS checks, a State transaction numbefor a period not to exceed 30 calendar days from the date that NICS was initially contacted. If the transaction is not completed within the 30-day period, the licensee shall initiate a new NICS check prior to completion of the transfer.

note the bolded sections. because CADOJ doesn't allow for an undetermined transfer until after 30-days have elapsed, the original DROS number is no longer valid. to comply with the underlined section, a new DROS number must be issued by CADOJ so that the dealer can proceeed.

[pacrat]

Thank You

Referring back to PC 28220 [b].

(b) To the extent that funding is available, the Department of Justice may participate in the National Instant Criminal Background
Check System (NICS), as described in subsection (t) of Section 922 of
Title 18 of the United States Code, and, if that participation is
implemented, shall notify the dealer and the chief of the police
department of the city or city and county in which the sale was made,
or if the sale was made in a district in which there is no municipal
police department, the sheriff of the county in which the sale was
made, that the purchaser is a person prohibited from acquiring a
firearm under federal law.

Knowing as we do, that Kamala as AG subverted at least 24 million dollars of DROS funds initially, out of the system of BG Checks. And has continued to do so to further her APPS program. And that as OP noted, the next day after starting DROS, the FFL got a delay from DOJ. From wording of 28220 and rapidity of delay response. In all probability, NICS was never querried regarding OP's elligibility to possess.

If that is the case, the 30 day Federal clock was never even started, let alone run out. In which case the clock in, 27 CFR 478.102 is moot. And the DROS number isn't actually required for release under, 27 CFR 478.102.

Sadly neither OP or we as citizens of this state will likely never know. OP is just another victim of Kamala's incompetent DOJ. And they will not tell anyone why they are delayed or how to remedy it. They only notify if "denied". And still have the option of listing "other" as a "denial" reason and shelving the blame into oblivion. Rather than answer to citizens for their incompetence.

[ke6guj]

CADOJ is considered the point of contact for NICS so that federal regulation would be read as

whether or not CADOJ contacts NICS as part as the background check, ATF considers CADOJ to be the point of contact so the CADOJ DROS number is controlling. it is issued at the moment that DROS starts, not when CADOJ decides to contact NICS.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-state-lists

[ke6guj]

when CADOJ initially went with the 30-day undetermined release procedure, it was initally set up so that the dealer had to wait 30-days and then request a new DROS number from CADOJ so that it could be listed on the 4473. now, AFAIK, CADOJ automatically issues a new DROS number when it goes undetermined so that the dealer doesn't have to manually ask for one.

[ke6guj]

FFL says it is still on delay. Today is the 30 day. This is annoying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He says the status needs to be triggered to undetermined before he can release.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

my guess is that it hadn't been 30 24-hour periods yet. basically, if you started the DROS on 10/26 at 6pm, you have to wait until 6pm on 11/25 for the full 30-days to transpire. once 6pm comes by, then it will go to undetermined and the FFL will have the new DROS number that he needs to list on the 4473 so that he can release it to you.

[pacrat]

it is issued at the moment that DROS starts, not when CADOJ decides to contact NICS.

That is in direct contradiction to [27 CFR 478.102]


You are saying Ca PC that was as written, passed by the legislature, isn't the law. If a DOJ weenie says otherwise.

And that Federal law that as written, was passed by congress, isn't the law if an ATF weenie says otherwise.

Ca. cannot be the NICS "POC" for "ALL" firearms transactions. It would be Partial POC, if at all. Because Ca does not "Contact NICS" on ALL transactions. Which is clearly stated in Ca PC 28220 [b].

According to OP's "flake" FFL. DOJ never issued him an "undetermined status" on the transfer. They just left it dangling with a "delay" for 30 days.

[ke6guj]

That is in direct contradiction to [27 CFR 478.102]


You are saying Ca PC that was as written, passed by the legislature, isn't the law. If a DOJ weenie says otherwise.

And that Federal law that as written, was passed by congress, isn't the law if an ATF weenie says otherwise.

Ca. cannot be the NICS "POC" for "ALL" firearms transactions. It would be Partial POC, if at all. Because Ca does not "Contact NICS" on ALL transactions. Which is clearly stated in Ca PC 28220 [b].

I'll let you argue that with ATF and CADOJ to see if they agree with you. I'm just stating how the 30-day undermined deal works in practice. I remember when this first went into effect and how the dealers realized that they needed a new DROS number to be able ot complete the transfer after the 30-days.

According to OP's "flake" FFL. DOJ never issued him an "undetermined status" on the transfer. They just left it dangling with a "delay" for 30 days.

um, CADOJ doesn't issue an undetermined until after 30-days have elapsed. it would be on "delay" for 720 hours. after 720 hours, it should switch to undetermined. we don't know if the 720 hours had elapsed when the OP contacted the FFL today.

[ke6guj]

and per CADOJ testimony, CADOJ does do a NICS check as well as checks against other state and federal databases.
http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...ch-26-2014.pdf starting on page 189.

this is why they are legally considered PoC for the 4473.



and this one goes into the complete process that CADOJ does to clear someone to purchase, NICS is one of the steps in the process.

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Silvester-v.-Harris_Defendant-Kamala-D.-Harriss-Proposed-Findings-of-Fact-and-Conclusions-of-Law.pdf