Unintended Consequences (ammo bill)

[Dvrjon]

A gun store owner speculated that CA DOJ could track purchases and if someone buys ammo and has no firearm on file in that caliber they could be accused of a straw purchase. Of course we all know the holes in that logic, but it has that ring of "it could happen."

No, no it doesn't.

First, it came from a gunstore owner, second, aw what's the use? Spread all the BS ya'll want to.

[KahrMan]

Thanks Dvrjon, just keep those rose colored glasses around my friend.

edit: That owner is on the Sac Sheriff payroll btw.

[Malthusian]

If there is a crime in your neighborhood where ammunition in the caliber you recently purchased was used

You most probably will get a knock on your door

It's part of the investigative process

It's another tool and a lead that they will follow

[Scratch705]

Thanks Dvrjon, just keep those rose colored glasses around my friend.

edit: That owner is on the Sac Sheriff payroll btw.

so what your saying is that the gun store owner in your case will be reporting people on what has always been a lawful purchase?

i got buddies that don't own guns, but go shooting with me, and so would they all be reported to the cops by your gun store owner since they don't own guns in that caliber?

please out this store so if the ammo law passes others can boycott them for their two face attitude to gun owners.

[Den60]

I have just a couple of thousand rounds right now. I will be adding to that during the next year. Keeping my defensive ammo in stock shouldn't be an issue but it is the practice rounds I buy that will be hard to stock enough of. I only buy 9mm handguns so that makes it easier for me to stock up. I may pick up a shotgun in the next year as well.

[Dvrjon]

Thanks Dvrjon, just keep those rose colored glasses around my friend.

The rose-colored glasses help me identify bull*** before I step in it.

edit: That owner is on the Sac Sheriff payroll btw.

So are janitors, auto mechanics and CIs.

Are you implying that the sheriff's policy will be to conduct such an analysis?

And, are you implying that the Sheriff and the AG have discussed this as a viable law enforcement strategy?

If this happens, and law enforcement shows up on somebody's porch stating,
"You purchased ammunition for a caliber of gun you don't own. Why is that?"

Do you foresee an actionable cause when the individual says,

"The statute doesn't require that I have a gun in that caliber. Good-bye."

Or,

"I'm 65 years old. I've been buying guns since before records were kept. Why do you think I don't have that caliber of gun.?

"Prove that you do."

"Good-bye."

The stupidity here is strong. But it can be overcome. Tell us who this brilliant gun store owner/law enforcement strategist/DA is so we can learn more from his wisdom.

[KahrMan]

so what your saying is that the gun store owner in your case will be reporting people on what has always been a lawful purchase?

i got buddies that don't own guns, but go shooting with me, and so would they all be reported to the cops by your gun store owner since they don't own guns in that caliber?

please out this store so if the ammo law passes others can boycott them for their two face attitude to gun owners.

I don't think you understand the dynamics. You will get run through a procedure which sends your identity and purchase info to doj. The doj MAY decide to cross reference your purchase with guns which show up in the database containing your profile.

As I said, that is frought with incorrect assumptions, but at least that gun store owner speculates the doj might use this to see how much hou are purchasing and if you have weapons in that caliber. AGAIN, I know doj their assumptions are on shaky ground.

The purpose in pointing this out is to illustrate how the new ammo law might cause even more invasive scrutino of gun owners/ammo purchasers.

Btw, the ammo law has passed and it will require some sort of permit, not yet defined, for purchases.

Possibly you should bone up on the state of the regs. And AGAIN, its not the store owner but the newly required process for purchasing ammo.

Have a nice day, I am through with this.

[KahrMan]

The rose-colored glasses help me identify bull*** before I step in it.

So are janitors, auto mechanics and CIs.

Are you implying that the sheriff's policy will be to conduct such an analysis?

And, are you implying that the Sheriff and the AG have discussed this as a viable law enforcement strategy?

If this happens, and law enforcement shows up on somebody's porch stating,
"You purchased ammunition for a caliber of gun you don't own. Why is that?"

Do you foresee an actionable cause when the individual says,

"The statute doesn't require that I have a gun in that caliber. Good-bye."

Or,

"I'm 65 years old. I've been buying guns since before records were kept. Why do you think I don't have that caliber of gun.?

"Prove that you do."

"Good-bye."

The stupidity here is strong. But it can be overcome. Tell us who this brilliant gun store owner/law enforcement strategist/DA is so we can learn more from his wisdom.

Dude, I am so through with you on this. Believe what the _ell you want.

[Dvrjon]

Dude, I am so through with you on this. Believe what the _ell you want.

I thought you left? Way to hang in, Dude! Look, I'm not trying to bust your cojones or call you out, but these kinds of speculation need to be looked at carefully to determine if they are viable. This one does seem to work (for me). More importantly, these types of things get picked up and re-gurgitated as fact.

Btw, the ammo law has passed and it will require some sort of permit, not yet defined, for purchases.

Possibly you should bone up on the state of the regs statutes. {FIFY} And AGAIN, its not the store owner but the newly required process for purchasing ammo.

Have a nice day, I am through with this.

The statutes are in place, the regs haven't been written.

Could you please provide some insight into this "permit"? SB 1235 requires vendors to have a permit, but does not require an individual permit. It requires the purchaser to undergo a background check. (Newsom's Proposition would establish an ammunition purchaser's authorization, but that's superseded by SB1235 provisions.)

Thanks.

Now, as to how this law can be used for enforcement, Kevin DeLeon explained that in the unsuccessful AB 48 of a few years ago:


Apparently, profiling is good! (Why do they keep voting him in?)
If you're a white male over 50, you're good!
Young, mid-late 20s female, not so much.

Best.

[geoint]

And business "will" be good.

So we can't even legally sell our store bought Ammo after the ban goes into effect?

[Dvrjon]

So we can't even legally sell our store bought Ammo after the ban goes into effect?

You will be able to sell 50 rounds to family members. You will be able to sell more to anyone, but you have to go through a licensed ammo vendor and the buyer incurs additional fees.

[lostinsurf]

I believe the max amount of smokeless powder a private person can have is 20 pounds and the max black powder is 1 pound. Felony offense for exceeding!
The storage is to be in a wooden box with no less than 1" sides. Commercial is different.

The per person limit may not apply if you include family members. However, I believe there is International law, adopted by the US National Fire folks, that has been the basis for state and local law that has the 20 and 1 limits per household. I believe this is current situation.

Any body know better?

[Dvrjon]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=16636989&postcount=13

Refer here as well.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=12001-13000&file=12101-12112

HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 12101-12112

12102. This chapter does not apply to any possession or use of 20
pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black
sporting powder, provided that:
(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small
arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or
small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(c) All such powder is for private use and not for resale, and, in
the case of black sporting powder, there shall be no gift, delivery,
or other disposition to another person.
(d) The storage, use and handling of such smokeless and black
powder conforms to rules, regulations, or ordinances of authorities
having jurisdiction for fire prevention and suppression in the area
of such storage, use, and handling of such explosives.

Local ordinances may also apply.