Why such panic on stripped lowers?

[IVC]

Do note the statutes cited by rum. In particular:

PC 30605 is the penalty statute and it's been in existence for some years.

And, NEW

"SEC. 2. Section 30680 is added ...

Note that both of those talk about *assault weapons*.

If the rifle is NOT an assault weapon, those sections don't apply. Featureless makes a rifle "NOT an assault weapon."

[ifilef]

Note that both of those talk about *assault weapons*.

If the rifle is NOT an assault weapon, those sections don't apply. Featureless makes a rifle "NOT an assault weapon."

Your featured SACF rifle IS deemed a legal AW if YOU POSSESSED IT with a BB any time 2001-2016. New PC 30900(b)(1). But it's an Assault Weapon for purposes of prosecution under PC 30605 in 2018 unless you register it in 2017. In other words, it's a legal AW that must be registered in 2017 in order for possession of it to remain legal.

New PC 30680 makes it clear that PC 30605 does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:
(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person was eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.
(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.
(c) The person registers the assault weapon by January 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

And it must be so registered in order to avoid exposure.

The statutes do not grant an exemption if you convert them in the meantime to featureless or what you believe to be 2017 mag compliant. The only exemptions of which I am aware are you did not possess with a BB 2001-2016, or you register pursuant to New PC 30680 and New PC 30900(b)(1).

The red herring is believing that converting it will exempt people from the registration statutes' mandate, IMO.

Once again, they MANDATE registration if YOU POSSESSED IT with a BB at any time 2001-2016. New PC 30900(b)(1).

If you don't register it, you may suffer the consequences later of possessing an unregistered AW, no matter the later configuration.

I don't see how this significantly differs from the original AWCA with Roberti-Roos and the later listed weapons...which are referred to as Category 1 and Category 2 RAWs. What is the difference? They banned future sale or transfer of those weapons and forced those who wanted to keep those already in their possession to register them by a certain date. If not so registered, subject to a felony. And the Act was held to be constitutional under the Kasler case. I just found this-read the last sentence on the first page of this Information Bulletin (and to whom it was distributed) and form your own opinion of how the DOJ might interpret the new laws: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...uls/200004.pdf

[Hokanut]

hmm that makes a lot of sense. if you buy a complete lower with a bullet button its drosd as a firearm with a bb and when you register it as a AW. it'll be on file that it has a BB thus once it is a AW you won't be able to take it off and put a regular mag release.. but if buying stripped lowers and registering the lower itself it wouldn't be registered as "with BB" so would you be able to add a regular mag release?

When did they start "registering with BB"? Just looked at my DROS from last month (7-16) and it only lists the caliber, manufacturers model & serial number and under "type" it says rifle. No mention of BB or featureless. Could have been either.

[IVC]

I don't see how this significantly differs from the original AWCA with Roberti-Roos and the later listed weapons...which are referred to as Category 1 and Category 2 RAWs. What is the difference? They banned future sale or transfer of those weapons and forced those who wanted to keep those already in their possession to register them by a certain date. If not so registered, subject to a felony. And the Act was held to be constitutional under the Kasler case. I just found this-read the last sentence on the first page of this Information Bulletin (and to whom it was distributed) and form your own opinion of how the DOJ might interpret the new laws: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...uls/200004.pdf

You are confusing all sorts of issues in your post.

What you found is that "AK/AR series weapons" cannot be de-featured. The decision in Kasler forced the DOJ to itemize the so-called "AR/AK series weapons" which resulted in the assault weapons list.

The whole BB movement is about OLL (off-list lowers), which are the ones that are NOT on the explicit list and the ones that can go featureless. Nobody claims that one can get a "listed" rifle and remove features.

[IVC]

In other words, it's a legal AW that must be registered in 2017 in order for possession of it to remain legal.

Let's be more precise.

The only AWs that are legal to posses at the moment are RAWs. Nobody owns an AW (law abiding, of course). It's either registered, or not an AW.

A rifle that is not an AW might become an AW under the new law if it meets the new definition after the new law goes into effect. However, the rifle might also become a "non-scary hunting rifle" if it's configured in line with the new law. The non-scary rifle is not an AW under the old law and not an AW under the new law. If it's not an AW, the AW sections do not apply.

[ifilef]

Let's be more precise.

The only AWs that are legal to posses at the moment are RAWs. Nobody owns an AW (law abiding, of course). It's either registered, or not an AW.

A rifle that is not an AW might become an AW under the new law if it meets the new definition after the new law goes into effect. However, the rifle might also become a "non-scary hunting rifle" if it's configured in line with the new law. The non-scary rifle is not an AW under the old law and not an AW under the new law. If it's not an AW, the AW sections do not apply.

Give up, already! Did you read the AG Information Bulletin linked in my last post?

Above quote in bold is NOT configuring it to comply with the new law. That is configuring it to GET AROUND the new registration laws and it's not going to work legally.
The 'die was cast' eff. 1/1/2017 FOR REGISTRATION PURPOSES if you POSSESSED it with a BB before 1/1/2017.

The writing is on the wall! Good Luck!!!

I am done with this thread.

[arelius]

I am done with this thread.

Doubtful, you say that in every thread.

[ifilef]

Doubtful, you say that in every thread.

And you don't contribute much of anything to the forum threads here as you apparently just buy and sell which appears to be your sole interest. You should probably be required to pay to be listed as a vendor.

[arelius]

And you don't contribute much of anything at all here as you apparently just buy and sell which appears to be your sole interest. You should probably be required to pay to be listed as a vendor.

You have no idea how engaged I am or what I contribute, at least your posts are consistent.

[Cokebottle]

Your featured SACF rifle IS deemed a legal AW if YOU POSSESSED IT with a BB any time 2001-2016. New PC 30900(b)(1). But it's an Assault Weapon for purposes of prosecution under PC 30605 in 2018 unless you register it in 2017. In other words, it's a legal AW that must be registered in 2017 in order for possession of it to remain legal.

Show us in the PC where it says that.
You are sounding like a Turner's employee making things up that are not in the law.

New PC 30680 makes it clear that PC 30605 does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:
(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person was eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.
(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.
(c) The person registers the assault weapon by January 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

IN 2016 IS IT NOT AN ASSAULT WEAPON.

If it is converted to featureless or fixed-magazine IN 2016 it is not an assault weapon in 2017, therefore:

(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.

Does not apply because it IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN ASSAULT WEAPON.

The date range 2001-2016 is given to prevent new registrations of guns that should have been registered in 2000 or 1990, and to prevent registration of builds completed after Jan 1 2017.

For God's sake, THERE IS AND WILL BE A PROCEDURE TO DE-REGISTER an AW once it is converted into a form that is not considered an AR (obviously, only applies to banned-by-feature).

If it's not an AW now, and is not an AW next year, it does not have to be registered.

[ifilef]

If it's not an AW now, and is not an AW next year, it does not have to be registered.

Agree that it is not an AW now. It's not an AW now if it is a SACF featured weapon with a BB.

But next year it retroactively becomes one subject to mandatory registration if you had POSSESSED it in that configuration at any time 2001-2016.

So, they have us on that one. If it ever had the BB, and YOU possessed it in that configuration, you SHALL REGISTER it next year.

If you do, you are exempt from future prosecution pursuant to New PC 30900(b)(1) and New PC 30680.

If you don't register it by the 12/31/2017 deadline, no matter its current configuration, you are NOT exempt from prosecution for possession of it in 2018 and thereafter.

So, they are basically saying in 30900(b)(1) what they had previously said in 30900(a). They address weapons predating 2001 in (a) where weapons that were lawfully possessed but later (as here) were considered to be AW had to be registered in order to remain legal to possess.

I hope that you now understand the plain meaning of the statutes, and especially New PC 30900(b)(1).

And the prior AWCA had been found to be constitutional in the Kasler case by the California Supreme Court. And if you read the DOJ Information Bulletin memo to all presiding judges, all district attorneys, police agencies, firearms dealers and manufacturers, etc. shortly after that decision came down, the DOJ stated in bold as to those weapons: "Removal of assault weapon characteristics does not eliminate the need to register AK and AR-15 “series” weapons."

So, it is likely the DOJ will apply the same view to AW featured w/BB they did back in 2000. They already anticipated the specious contentions back in 2000 that you and others assert here in 2016.

[Cokebottle]

FUD

Not an AW means not an AW.

The law does not MENTION the bullet button.

If it is not an AW today, and on Jan 1 2016 it is not an AW, then it is not an AW and is not subject to registration.

[ifilef]

When did they start "registering with BB"? Just looked at my DROS from last month (7-16) and it only lists the caliber, manufacturers model & serial number and under "type" it says rifle. No mention of BB or featureless. Could have been either.

When they compare database DROS vs. AW registrations and find you have not registered your Smith & Wesson M&P Sport II, whatever, in 5.56 that you purchased retail in 2016, they will have probable cause to obtain a search warrant and knock on your door and search your home for it in 2018, because when it was sold retail to you and possessed by you it was featured with a BB. That is a given. And there's no doubt that you possess it unless you have PPT to another. I doubt they'll buy your story that it was 'lost in a tragic boating accident'... so, when they find it, they will felony arrest you and throw you in jail no matter the configuration because you were duty-bound to register it and did not.

[ifilef]

FUD

Not an AW means not an AW.

The law does not MENTION the bullet button.

If it is not an AW today, and on Jan 1 2016 it is not an AW, then it is not an AW and is not subject to registration.

Oh, please, stop wasting our time. It refers to BB when the registration law states "including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool"... New PC 30900(b)(1).

You need to get over the emotion and face the fact that 'rocks are hard'. I don't like the law any more than you do and I have signed all the veto petitions relating thereto. But you need to face reality and get over the 'fantasy' notion that if you convert now it will exempt you from registration. It won't.

[elSquid]

When they compare database DROS vs. AW registrations and find you have not registered your Smith & Wesson M&P Sport II, whatever, in 5.56 that you purchased retail in 2016, they will have probable cause to obtain a search warrant and knock on your door and search your home for it in 2018, because when it was sold retail to you and possessed by you it was featured with a BB. That is a given. And there's no doubt that you possess it unless you have PPT to another. I doubt they'll buy your story that it was 'lost in a tragic boating accident'... so, when they find it, they will felony arrest you and throw you in jail nomatter the configuration because you were duty-bound to register it and did not.

On what charge? Show me the penalties in the new code for "failure to register".

30605 gives the criminal penalty for possession of an AW ( as defined by 30515 ). A featurless rifle is not now nor will be an AW next year. A featured/BB rifle converted to featureless before 2017 is not an AW pre-2017 or post 2016.

30900 describes the registration process that will take place next year. Note that the new 30900(b)(1) does not specify criminal penalities. Because there are none. That's because this is describing the process for an exemption, and if a person doesn't get said exemption they are at eventual risk of a possession charge.

On/after 01/01/2017, gun owners will have to examine their rifles to see if any are an AW as described by 30515. If none are, no worries. No AW means no violation of 30605.

If some are, they are in violation of 30605. But there is a temporary safe harbor as described by 30680.

30680. Section 30605 does not apply to the possession of an assault weapon by a person who has possessed the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017, if all of the following are applicable:
(a) Prior to January 1, 2017, the person was eligible to register that assault weapon pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 30900.
(b) The person lawfully possessed that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017.
(c) The person registers the assault weapon by January 1, 2018, in accordance with subdivision (b) of Section 30900.

As part of 30680, the gun owner must follow the process in 30900. If they satisfy all the criteria they can register the guns and have a permanent exemption.

If the owner chooses to not register AWs by 2018, then in 2018 they will be in violation of 30605.

-- Michael

Ref for new law, 30515, 30680, 30900 changes - > https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201520160SB880