Why such panic on stripped lowers?

[ifilef]

Can one pre-register something that doesn't exist, then build it and bring it into existence after it is prohibited by law?

I'd agree your question is rhetorical, AceGH. The answer, obviously, is: no.

[9mmContagion]

How could a stripped lower be characterized as an assault weapon under these laws:
Would refer you to NEW PC 30680, 30515, 30900 eff. 1/1/2017. I don't believe it possible nor should it be.

The lower is the only thing registered. Period. Therefore, if I decide I want to legally register my lower as an AW, it's an AW. If I decide to go rim fire or any other combo, I don't register.

If I register my lower as an AW, I must follow strict AW guidelines. The fact that the gun is complete, would not matter to DOJ, ATF, or any other organization. The only thing that is registered is the lower.

Which brings me to my next question..
Do you think the registration form will require information on the upper?

Here is an example of NY Assault Weapon Reg Form

https://safeact.ny.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/PPB-11-1.pdf

Only items it asks for is Rifle? Man? Caliber? Serial? Curio?

Of course this is all speculation, and I'm not arguing angrily with you "ifilef." Just conversation.

But I do use DROS as an example as well because although it does ask for barrel length, caliber etc. it is not required to have these items to DROS a stripped lower. I would imagine it has to be this way for AW registration, as uppers and other parts are completely interchangeable. If what you're saying is true, one could have 1 completed upper and just transfer it to each lower upon registering each lower.

[ifilef]

The lower is the only thing registered. Period. Therefore, if I decide I want to legally register my lower as an AW, it's an AW. If I decide to go rim fire or any other combo, I don't register.

If I register my lower as an AW, I must follow strict AW guidelines. The fact that the gun is complete, would not matter to DOJ, ATF, or any other organization. The only thing that is registered is the lower

Assuming arguendo that you are correct with respect to lower only, which I'd doubt, you'd have to assemble it with BB on or before 12/31/2016 anyway in order to make it registrable as an AW. My remarks are with respect to compliance, and do not address workarounds, lawful or not.

[nedro]

Points that appear well-taken.

First paragraph of above post -I might add, based on my discussions with another calgunner who shall remain nameless, that the law is very clear that only fully assembled rifles are registrable, not just a lower, and that you would likely need to build your assembled AR with features and BB'd lower BEFORE the end of 2016 to be 'entitled' to AW registration. That calgunner thought it still problematic because when DROS'd the stripped lower is not a 'fully assembled' rifle but one would think that it is perfectly legal presently to build an AR with evil features and BB'd lower until the end of this year. Thus, you will have possessed a registrable AW that is deemed such after 1/1/2017.

I fully agree with the second paragraph of the above post, and one is asking for real trouble with the purchase of a stripped lower after 1/1/2017 if it's configured in any other way than as described in that paragraph.

Good post.

Thanks for adding that, I agree with that assessment as well. An off-list lower by itself can't be considered an "assault weapon" by any definition, as it's inherently "featureless".

I would think that if you get the lower before 1/1/2017, you have until 12/31/2017 to finish the build and register the CA AW.

[ifilef]

I would think that if you get the lower before 1/1/2017, you have until 12/31/2017 to finish the build and register the CA AW.

You could do it but it would be unlawful. Would be violative of at least NEW PC 30680, 30900.

[nedro]

Not if you already have the parts.

[9mmContagion]

Can one pre-register something that doesn't exist, then build it and bring it into existence after it is prohibited by law?

I assume this question pertains to a stripped lower? Which is the conversation ifilef and I are speaking on

[9mmContagion]

Here is an example of NY Assault Weapon Reg Form

https://safeact.ny.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/PPB-11-1.pdf

Only items it asks for is Rifle? Man? Caliber? Serial? Curio?

Of course this is all speculation, and I'm not arguing angrily with you "ifilef." Just conversation.

But I do use DROS as an example as well because although it does ask for barrel length, caliber etc. it is not required to have these items to DROS a stripped lower. I would imagine it has to be this way for AW registration, as uppers and other parts are completely interchangeable. If what you're saying is true, one could have 1 completed upper and just transfer it to each lower upon registering each lower.

Your view of the law would basically make it illegal to change the upper after registration since the whole gun is registered

[ifilef]

RAW is a different species of 'cat' when compared to DROS. Gotta go. No offense taken, Ldarshay. Thanks!

[ifilef]

Not if you already have the parts.

I'd agree from a practical standpoint but not a legal one.

[Cokebottle]

No need for an upper. In your reference, all that would be needed is installation of bullet button. And even at that, we still don't know whether the bullet button will just be an added feature to form an assault weapon or whether the bullet button can be removed and replaced with a regular mag release upon registration.

The law is written.
The bullet button is not mentioned by name.
The law states that the magazine is detachable if it can be removed without disassembling the action.

The bullet button itself is not and will not become a "feature"

Likewise, installing a bullet button on a rifle devoid of any listed features does not make it an AW... it simply does not make it a fixed-magazine rifle.

In other words, one can purchase a stripped lower with full intent to complete as an AW. Or with full intent to complete as Featureless. If you register as AW, it is all on the owner to comply with the law.

Except that you ALSO can not manufacture or transfer an AW after Jan 1.

If you buy a stripped lower and complete the build after Jan 1, you have illegally manufactured an AW.

Please take the time to read the law.
Having a RAW is no picnic.
Transportation/destination/storage requirements (does your adult son have the combination to your safe?), restrictions on where you can shoot.

[BigDMcQ]

The law is written....

Except that you ALSO can not manufacture or transfer an AW after Jan 1.

If you buy a stripped lower and complete the build after Jan 1, you have illegally manufactured an AW.

So on that note, the things that make it a RAW are collapsible stock/pistol grip/vertical fore-grip/etc, right?

So if you have a lower with a collapsible stock and pistol grip you should be GTG on registering that right?

[Cokebottle]

So on that note, the things that make it a RAW are collapsible stock/pistol grip/vertical fore-grip/etc, right?

So if you have a lower with a collapsible stock and pistol grip you should be GTG on registering that right?

The only thing that is changing from 2016 law is that the bullet button no longer satisfies the requirement to create a fixed magazine.

If the gun requires a BB today, then it can not be built up in that form in January.
If it is built up BEFORE January, it must be registered, or modified into a compliant form (featureless or fixed magazine)

[DrjonesUSA]

If this has been discussed already, I will gladly delete this thread, but it's kind of hard to weed through ALL the "How do I make my rifle featureless?" threads...

I may be ignorant or reading something wrong in new bills. And I know nothing is set in stone. Why is there such a panic that nobody will be able to buy stripped lowers after this year? The laws on stripped lowers are not changing. DOJ does not know whether that stripped lower will be used for a featureless or even a rim fire firearm.

Maybe someone else can elaborate for me, but I just don't see the reason to panic. I have enough AR pattern rifles in their respective configurations, and I don't need more. Just wondering this subject and possibly offering a little relief to the panic people

Don't forget that there's a chance that c**t hilary may get into office. You're forgetting that.

Since Hussein got into office, gun sales have been just like the iPhone; each year they keep breaking last years' record, specifically because of him & his party's policies.

There is a risk that clinton could actually live long enough to get in, so there's been an up-swing in gun sales nationwide due to that risk.

It's just human nature man; tell people they cannot or should not have something, and demand goes through the roof.

[GM4spd]

The law is written.
The bullet button is not mentioned by name.
The law states that the magazine is detachable if it can be removed without disassembling the action.

The bullet button itself is not and will not become a "feature"

Likewise, installing a bullet button on a rifle devoid of any listed features does not make it an AW... it simply does not make it a fixed-magazine rifle.


Except that you ALSO can not manufacture or transfer an AW after Jan 1.

If you buy a stripped lower and complete the build after Jan 1, you have illegally manufactured an AW.

Please take the time to read the law.
Having a RAW is no picnic.
Transportation/destination/storage requirements (does your adult son have the combination to your safe?), restrictions on where you can shoot.

Well put,especially the part about the bullet button NOT being a feature of
a RAW. A lot of people are missing this very important point.