Why Calgunners don't train seriously?

[SB1964]

I didn't see the "I rarely shoot a gun but talk about it on the internet as if I'm an expert" choice. Sadly, I'm not being sarcastic.

[American Samurai]

They're more Meal Team 6 than SEAL team 6?

[Creampuff]

I am a legend in my own mind. A training class would force reality to meet my delusion of grandeur

No time. I wished I had the time, but family comes first.

[patriot_man]

"I'd rather train myself. I prefer to shoot alone. That's good enough."

This is the worst one of them all. This on a larger scale would be police departments with training that is so inbred with no outside influence to update teachings and tactics.

[rdtompki]

There's training and there's practice. You need enough training to understand how to practice. You need enough practice to be safe (minimum threshold). Next level might be enough practice to achieve the muscle memory so you can at least draw the gun under stress without shooting your foot. A yearly 1-day training session would be the minimum IMO (with a good instructor); if you can afford to practice with live ammo, you can afford the day a year.

Practice - dry fire is important and cheap, but you better have lots of practice drawing and firing a hot gun 'cause knowing the gun is loaded adds stress.

We practice for steel challenge 2x/week and once we (wife and I) have our CCW we'l take 1-2 CCW classes and practice with our carry 2/month or so. That should be enough to keep us proficient.

[smak28]

The police of my city get 5 days of firearms training in the academy. After that, they have to qualify twice a year, 50 rounds each time. Any additional range time is up to them, and any additional training will be out of their own pockets, on their own time. That means that the average cop in my city shoots 100 rounds a year.

On the other hand, I know a few local law enforcement officers who are really good shooters; but that's because they are "gun guys", and spend their own money and time to take classes and/or compete. In a class last year, the instructor, a former Tier 1 guy said that one of the students in the class, a member of a Bay Area SWAT team, shot as good as any DEVGRU/CAG guy. High compliment.

So, much like the average gun owning citizen, the vast majority of cops aren't very good at shooting.

Some Southern state put a video up of their capital police shooting their qual on Youtube, proud of the fact that the average officer shot it at something like 93%. They ended up taking it down because they were ridiculed at how easy the qual was.

Here's Bob Vogel shooting his state's police qualification course. Except he does it in half the time and at 5 times the distance. What's really sad is that the qualification involves a Failure To Stop at 3 yards with a mind numbing 6 second par time.

I felt safe with our San Francisco law enforcement before my first class but wasn't confident after my chief instructor (SFPD) told me about the lack of training for SFPD. San Francisco rather spend the $ on supporting and encouraging homeless and low income. Colma, CA and Daly City, CA were the other adjacent cities that doesn't pay for training, per my class colleagues who are police officers. They said that's why they were also taking the handgun tactical course on their own dime. Cities should provide the training for their law enforcement as they do in your city, especially in San Francisco, but the politicians here are a different breed of people.

[357manny]

I wish I'd gotten bit by the bug earlier in my life, when I was single, no wife, no kid, no mortgage, and had time to myself....

Wife + rugrat pretty much account for my weekends and spare time.
If I could take the time off from work to do a 1-day training, I definitely would, but that's not happening, as it's not job-related. If I'm taking a PTO, it's to be with family. I can afford the training, have the money to spend, but what I do have, I'll use it to buy gear/ammo.

For now, besides the trip to the range every other week, I've done some dryfiring with the cards. I can't do that too much at home, either, as our house is small and we don't want my little girl (2yo) exposed to guns any time soon.

On a side note, I've taken some friends shooting, and I've tried to take more. The two that did go had a blast (literally and figuratively), and we'll go again, some time soon. I've tried to get more friends introduced to shooting, and not all are interested. Would be great if they were, so it could count as guys night out. But shooting and guns are not for everyone.

[calif 15-22]

Everyone who shoots does it for their own reason and in their own way, why question why and how people shoot. As long as they are safe, responsible, and have fun who cares?

^^^ THIS ^^^
I wonder if 150yrs ago there were "Gun Slinger" courses for those that used to carry a gun daily for survival in the Wild West.

These discussion always take two sides:
Side A - You need to train to become proficient when the Adrenaline hits and you are faced with a life and death situation.
Side B - Practice and you will be fine.

All of us get into our cars everyday and are more likely to face life and death situations on a daily if not weekly basis, yet I would venture no one in this thread has taken any "defensive or evasive driving courses" or any high performance driving specific instructions at all, yet we get behind a 5,000lb machine and hurl us down the road at 75mph, with nothing more that 20 hours of driving instruction when we were 16.

Can you benefit from additional training? Of Course you can, no question. Is additional training required to become proficient at the use of firearms? For some yes for others maybe not.

I've seen guys who have been trained in driving and race on the weekends who are the worst drivers I've ever seen.

Training has less to do with the instructor and more to do with the student attending the training.

[Corpral_Agarn]

I am a handgun/CCW instructor and sponsored shooter.

I think it is about resources the same as any other decision where opportunity cost is present.

Do I spend time and money on something that I will likely not ever use, or take the wife out on the town or to a weekend vacation spot?

I think that handgun training courses like advanced CCW are of benefit to me because I CCW. And having good techniques could directly benefit me.

I haven't taken a carbine course yet, because I don't carry a carbine or rifle. I do study rifle/carbine techniques, but mostly I compete in Multi gun events to improve my shooting an weapon handling skills under a tiny bit of stress (time).
I am amazed by how many people are thrown off by the timer on a stage. People start fumbling, taking poor shots, forgetting what they are supposed to do, etc.

For the cost of admission ($20-25) it is some of the best practice you can get. I encourage anyone wanting to get better at shooting skills to compete. This does not replace training and good technique.

The same goes for my IDPA and USPSA shoots.

That said, there is a great phrase that I like to use to remind myself: "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king."

I see people all the time adopting bad technique because their buddy is a better shooter than them, so this must be a good technique.

Be wary of thinking that you know what you are doing all the time. I found that I simply didn't know what I didn't know. Even after all the studying.

I am closer now, but still a long ways off.

Training has its benefits, for sure, but people have lives to live and I don't judge them for not getting into training. Especially if the don't shoot for a living.

[Jimi Jah]

Training for the insurection.

[RandyD]

I am former law enforcement and former military. It is highly improbable that most of us would encounter a situation where we would need a firearm for self defense. Excluding my law enforcement and military friends, I do not know anyone that has had to fire a firearm in self defense. I have decades of experience in hunting, target shooting, and informal plinking. I believe my skills with a firearm are sufficient to counter 99% of any self defense situation. The remaining 1% of those situations, are those that we see in action adventure or war movies, and those are unrealistic scenarios.

[American Samurai]

I think it is similar to almost other things in life. I train pretty seriously at running marathons, but most people just want to complete them and not even come close to competitive.

[FLDWRX]

The cross section of reasons is kind of what I expected.

I'm hoping to organize monthly shoots that focus on carbine and pistol.

Beginner to advanced. One day. 6 hour courses. Gear/lights/holsters provided if needed. Ammo on site if needed. Trainers are ex LE/SWAT/MIL/FED, but more importantly, very cool guys that don't have beards or YouTube vids.
200 bucks and 6 hours when ever you have it.

Night classes/low light classes as well. My mind was blown the first time I got instruction in the dark. It's true, you don't know what you don't know.

Every class, regardless of level of experience ends with exposure to a shoot house. I had some 3-gun buds out to the shoot house and they were very excited to learn more. The 360, always hot, critical thinking aspect is a great mental workout.

So far the issues guys have are pretty standard.
I know there are a lot of guys on the fence.
No judging. None of us are perfect. Just trying to stay positive and help guys break down those mental barriers. Train once a month. Once a year. Whatever. Just get instruction from guys that have had gunfights and can help navigate preparations.

[Mayor McRifle]

So we've just unwittingly participated in an internet forum marketing scheme of sorts?

[Corpral_Agarn]

So we've just unwittingly participated in an internet forum marketing scheme of sorts?

Kinda...

So I will through out a new event I created:

Starting in June I am hosting one night per month for people to come in and practice handgun drills.

That is gonna be at Down Range Indoor Training Center in Chico.

PM me if you would like more info.