Why Calgunners don't train seriously?

[FLDWRX]

I'm trying to get inside the mind of the Cal gunner. I recently spoke with guys that went through the requirements for CCW and was amazed by the lack of overall knowledge and interest in actual shooting.
I was amazed by the things that impressed good, normal, everyday people.
I understand a lot of guys here are LE/MIL trained, have taken classes in the past or compete in 3-gun, IDPA, ISPC, USPSA, but very few receive dynamic training often.
Essentially no training for what you may one day encounter, with loss of life hanging in the balance.
I'm trying to sort out a way to get guys out more, proficient with their weapons, confident in realistic scenarios, taught by great trainers.
I'm primarily talking about the carbine and handgun.
Individually and together.
I feel like the competition, active shooting and training section should be as active and popular as the Off Topic section.
I've already grilled my close friends and now look for a broader view.

[E Michael]

Time and money. I buy ammo with my money and shoot with my time. I do think I'd like some kind of training but i do not like groups of people. That is my excuse.

[golfrj]

It's a Hobby, Not a lifestyle for me.. Supposed to be Fun..

[cannon]

Training for what?

I already know how to shoot trap, hunt, plink and target shoot.

[Cokebottle]

I think cost and scheduling are the major issues.
2 and 3 day classes aren't cheap.

While expense should not be a factor in our decision to not seek or not seek training, at the same time, there are many on Calguns who are apparently financially independent (or are complete blowhards or are still mooching off of mommy and daddy) who sit there and smugly proclaim that "If you can't afford training, you can't afford to own a gun"
Sorry... Bills have to be paid and families have to eat, and for many, paying cash for a $500-$1000 class might take several months of saving up.

There are alternatives. The NRA classes are quite reasonable. The 1-day Defensive Handgun class is only $125, and it's the best $125 I've ever spent.
But it is a catch-22. Costs are high BECAUSE classes are infrequent. The most expensive products in the world are bench and lab test equipment. When a company only sells 100 units per year of a simple suitcase-sized piece of test equipment, that product is going to be $40,000.
Lack of demand dictates fewer classes and fewer classes drives cost (and scheduling issues)


Scheduling is another issue.
Travis is hosting a 3-day at Prado pretty soon. How often does he come to town? Same for the other classes (including NRA classes).
Once you get beyond Basic Handgun and Hunter Safety, the low demand dictates that these classes will not be frequent.


Lack of visible advertising. People who may be interested find out about a class scheduled when they already have obligations, or when they don't have time to save up for the class.

When I walk into Turners, there should be a bulletin board near the door with local training opportunities plastered in plain sight.
They may have such a bulletin board... but the fact that I don't know if they do or not says something about its prominence.
Most of the flyers that I see for training are at the ranges.


Reputation of instructors.
This is a big issue. We have some instructors who are bashed any time their names are mentioned, and some who are viewed as gods. Some of those who are bashed may at one time have been gods.
There are no "standards" for dynamic instruction, and even if you have trained up through high levels with one company, it is generally recommended to go back to the basic levels with another company because things ARE taught differently.
Quick example, when Travis says "Administrative Reload" it means something different from what is taught in the NRA class.

It can be difficult to select an instructor. Is this quality training? Am I going to get my money's worth? Is safety going to be an issue on the line?


High Cost
Infrequent Schedule
Lack of Awareness/Advertising
Lack of Knowledge of Instructor Quality

[Thepug99]

Cost money and time. And just not that into training and shooting.

[Paladin]

I'm not a hunter. I occasionally square range target shoot. ("Boring!")

I don't have a CCW ("two weeks" I'm assured...)

Used to compete PPC, IPSC/USPSA, IDPA.

Got a shotty and a pistol for home defense. Already trained decades ago with top tier for shotty & pistol. I can hit anything coming thru front door, down the hallway or through glass windows with either.... (Limited entry points/variables at home.)

Why spend more time, money and effort on more training? I spend those fighting for our RKBA (esp CA CCWs).

[MarikinaMan]

I'd like to train again and more frequently, but it's not a priority. Time and finances are two factors. The primary reason is other interests.

[mjmagee67]

Everyone who shoots does it for their own reason and in their own way, why question why and how people shoot. As long as they are safe, responsible, and have fun who cares?

[desertrider]

I've taken defensive handgun and carbine classes, years ago.

Shooting is a hobby for me. I enjoy shooting and feel competent enough to have fun at what I do. I don't get paid for shooting and am not sponsored by anyone to promote their product, so I am about as amateur as any individual who participates in any sport that they enjoy.

If I trained religiously I'd probably be pretty broke, and tired, and probably wouldn't enjoy it so much. At that point shooting would be a chore and no longer any fun, and I'd have to find another source of entertainment.

There, I said it. Entertainment. Guns are entertainment for me.

Don't mean I can't effectively kill someone who fvks with my family when civilization comes to a grinding halt.

[Cokebottle]

I bet the average Calgunner has several pistols and/or rifles/shotguns, so $200-$275 for a 1 day class or $400-$525 for a 2 day class doesn't seem like the limiting factor, especially when you see the spread of firearms many Calgunners showcase in photos, or on the bench at the local public range. How many "what should I get next?" threads are there every week here?

True true...

And that's why I covered multiple issues. It's not ONLY cost, it's a combination of cost, schedule, and a basic lack of awareness of what is available, as it was for you.

Without a mentor, or someone to point us in the right direction, our exposure is what we see here.

[Monster]

Same reason all calgunners don't drive chevy's or think like you.

[Cokebottle]

At that point shooting would be a chore and no longer any fun, and I'd have to find another source of entertainment.

And OP did reference those who CCW.
Perhaps the thread should have been there, rather than General discussion.

Most times, I'm not thinking about the gun on my hip. Sometimes it pokes or jabs. Sometimes it's an inconvenience (can't go to the post office). Sometimes it alters social situations (have to turn down a beer offered by a buddy).

Training and mindset is another facet of that package.

[Merc1138]

True true...

And that's why I covered multiple issues. It's not ONLY cost, it's a combination of cost, schedule, and a basic lack of awareness of what is available, as it was for you.

Without a mentor, or someone to point us in the right direction, our exposure is what we see here.

Yup, there's lots of reasons and money isn't necessarily it.

I know lots of people with plenty of guns, who are shocked and amazed when I mention things like training and courses being available to them. They're aware of beginner type safety courses, but not interested in those. Then when you mention the cost, it's not like there is a case of sticker shock, but it's the time that kills it. Talk to someone who works 40+ hours a week with a wife and kids, and trying to convince them to use an entire weekend or more and it's not a money issue, it's a time issue.

So in addition to their regular lives, plus time spent simply enjoying the hobby, time needed with family for any number of responsibilities, you cannot realistically expect everyone to have even more time to spend on training. It's the same reason you won't see thousands of calgunners marching in Sacramento, they've got a whole other mess of things to do unlike jobless libs who get paid by the state to sit around all day.

[Bert Gamble]

I am very involved in training. I kind of consider training as a vacation. It is the most fun you can have with a gun,

Making noise and putting holes in static paper is just not entertaining enough. I want to test and push myself. Failure is a huge motivator for me, and I work on my weaknesses when they are found.