Standard Operating Procedure for Leo's Trigger Fingers?

[jlh95811]

That's what all the LE who've posted here suggest. If the gun is out, they're on target with finger on trigger.

I expect more from a mod. Hopefully it was a mistake and you did not do what I think you did which is post before reading.

[Invisible_Dave]

Maybe I'm pushing the envelope a bit though on the other part. I may or may not attack an officer for pulling a gun on me. I'm actually a fairly rational individual. That is just what I wish I would do. I wouldn't try to kill him even if I did attack though. I would simply wish to cuff them and then call the cops on THEM. lol

But that is just because we all know what guns can do and that accidents happen. It should not be pointed near me if I do not pose a threat to thier life. All may not feel the same. But I feel I am entitled to not have my life threatened without VERY good cause.

Yeah...let us all know how that works out for ya.

[Jonathan Doe]

Let me give everyone an incident that occurred about 18 years ago when I was working on the street. One evenig in December 1990, just a few days before Christmas, I just pulled out of the station at about 8 PM. about 1/4 mile from the station, I saw a blacked out car speeding beyond the posted 35 MPH.

I conducted a traffic stop and lighted up the car. As soon as the car stopped, the driver opened the door and started to come out. I got on my PA and told the driver to stay in the car which he ignored. He exited the car and red flag goes up in my head. I exited my car and pulled out my pistol and pointed at him while making a agesture with my non shooting hand to stop. As soon as he saw my hand, his right hand goes to his back. When I saw it, I thought he was going for his gun.

I was ready to pull the trigger because I thought he was a threat to my safety. But, I thought at the same time, I am fast and accurate enough with my pistols, and I have the muzzle pointed at him already. I figured if he act stupid and pull out his gun, I had him already. I decided to give him maybe 2 more seconds. Within that 2 seconds, he pulled out a wallet from his back pocket, and pulling out a card from it. A sigh of relief went through.

I then called him ober to see what the card said and saw it said he is a deaf person. I wrote on his card "do not ever come out of the car when stopped by the police X1000000. you are almost dead tonight". I then saw a scared expression on his face. Obviously, he didn't think much about what would happen when he comes out of the car especially at night.

With the state of mind at the time,I would be justified shooting the man. But, it would not look good on the paper next day " a cop shot and kill an unarmed deaf man". You see the point?

Justification and reality maybe different. But the state of mind of the LEO will play the big roll on the shooting. I am glad I could avoid possible field day against me and my agency on that fateful day. I am glad I was competent enough to have extra time to judge and decide on the sitiuation. And in most situations where I came across the armed suspects, I yelled at them to drop the gun and all of them complied. I never had to shoot anyone in my career. Maybe good or maybe not good, but I am glad I resolved the situations without deadly force. I have to admit that there are some people not worthy living on this earth, but they all have equal rights as anyone else, and as an LEO, I will have to protect them also and provide them with due process.

All I am asking to all the Calgunners is do not judge the police involved shooting by just what you read on the paper or watching the news.

[herburt]

That's how all law enforcement should think when confronted with the choice to fire or not! I am a law abiding citizen, but after hearing about instances of police violating your rights if you don't stand up for yourself, I now have a video camera and sound recording device handy at all times. If I am going to get shot for having a banana in my hand, the internet is damn sure going to know about it.

[BitterVoter]

training should be an ongoing thing... todays budgets won't allow it, but the law suits that follow always seemed to get paid... penny wise, dollar foolish... how typical

That is because there is insurance for suits...but there is no insurance for a training budget.

And, again, I am no expert, but practice enough a standard practice of proper draw and you will, when in a stressful position do it without thinking. The same concept in martial arts I believe. You repeat and repeat to the point that your reflexes and reaction are almost automatic.

This makes me think of basic training in the Army. It was in 97 and my DS said "basic training should be the most stressful thing a person has ever endured in their life, because if they can handle stress and pressure here they can better handle the stress and pressure in the battlefield." I agree totally!

In the Army and the Police force I don't believe so much in the doctrine of on the job training. That is was gets officers, soldiers and others killed.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

I saw it personally on the internets.

And, of course, everything you see on the "Internets" is absolutely true and correct and tells the whole story. Just like the newspapes. I call BS.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

That's what all the LE who've posted here suggest. If the gun is out, they're on target with finger on trigger.

Sorry to say that is not correct. I am one of the LEOs who posted "finger off trigger". The majority of agencies in my former jurisdiction cooperate in firearms training and operate in the same manner.

[DANGERCLOSE]

+1 grumpy on all accounts. nice story topgun. btw, you guys are old.

[N6ATF]

And, of course, everything you see on the "Internets" is absolutely true and correct and tells the whole story. Just like the newspapes. I call BS.

[jlh95811]

Let me give everyone an incident that occurred about 18 years ago when I was working on the street. One evenig in December 1990, just a few days before Christmas, I just pulled out of the station at about 8 PM. about 1/4 mile from the station, I saw a blacked out car speeding beyond the posted 35 MPH.

I conducted a traffic stop and lighted up the car. As soon as the car stopped, the driver opened the door and started to come out. I got on my PA and told the driver to stay in the car which he ignored. He exited the car and red flag goes up in my head. I exited my car and pulled out my pistol and pointed at him while making a agesture with my non shooting hand to stop. As soon as he saw my hand, his right hand goes to his back. When I saw it, I thought he was going for his gun.

I was ready to pull the trigger because I thought he was a threat to my safety. But, I thought at the same time, I am fast and accurate enough with my pistols, and I have the muzzle pointed at him already. I figured if he act stupid and pull out his gun, I had him already. I decided to give him maybe 2 more seconds. Within that 2 seconds, he pulled out a wallet from his back pocket, and pulling out a card from it. A sigh of relief went through.

I then called him ober to see what the card said and saw it said he is a deaf person. I wrote on his card "do not ever come out of the car when stopped by the police X1000000. you are almost dead tonight". I then saw a scared expression on his face. Obviously, he didn't think much about what would happen when he comes out of the car especially at night.

With the state of mind at the time,I would be justified shooting the man. But, it would not look good on the paper next day " a cop shot and kill an unarmed deaf man". You see the point?

Justification and reality maybe different. But the state of mind of the LEO will play the big roll on the shooting. I am glad I could avoid possible field day against me and my agency on that fateful day. I am glad I was competent enough to have extra time to judge and decide on the sitiuation. And in most situations where I came across the armed suspects, I yelled at them to drop the gun and all of them complied. I never had to shoot anyone in my career. Maybe good or maybe not good, but I am glad I resolved the situations without deadly force. I have to admit that there are some people not worthy living on this earth, but they all have equal rights as anyone else, and as an LEO, I will have to protect them also and provide them with due process.

All I am asking to all the Calgunners is do not judge the police involved shooting by just what you read on the paper or watching the news.

Very nice restraint sir.

I only judge by videos I have seen. Never would I make a judgement upon what another persons writes or says. I must see it with my own eyes.

Too bad there are not many videos portraying what you describe here.

[jlh95811]

And, of course, everything you see on the "Internets" is absolutely true and correct and tells the whole story. Just like the newspapes. I call BS.

Just like the newspapers my ***.
Video is admissible in the court of my mind. Nothing anyone says or writes will be taken as gospel. But having seen incidents on video I can say that they do happen. So stop calling bs and furthermore please stop agruing if you do not intend to make a valid, logical arguement.

[nobs11]

If you comply with instructions as a law-abiding citizen is expected to do, you have nothing to fear. If you attack, you WILL lose and you WILL suffer the consequences. I WILL go home to my family at the end of my shift. I don't care whether you approve of my methods or not.

Typical LE mentality

"If you comply you have nothing to fear" = tyrant mantra.

" I don't care whether you approve of my methods or not."

You should. His tax dollars are paying your salary. You are a servant of the people. Not their boss. What am I saying? Yup, go ahead, shoot him. The media will back you up.

Folks like you give level headed cops a bad name. Type A Rambo personality disorder.

No wonder this is called a police state. I feel so much safer now.

[N6ATF]

I wouldn't expect there to be videos of those with sensory impairments almost getting themselves killed. Praise the officer all you like, but don't make the person on the other side look like an idiot. Maybe it was his first time, and was not taught how to deal with police. But perception is everything, not everybody thinks of why things could have gone down the way they did.

[aplinker]

Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot....it's gun safety law #3 in our department.

Our finger only goes on the tigger when we are about to use deadly force otherwise it's along the frame.

Standard Operating Procedure for Leo's Trigger Fingers?

I can't believe it... 40+ replies and no one posted the obviously correct answer.

[Gnome]

I was trained "On target, on trigger. Off target, off trigger." Basically, if I've identified someone as a possible threat, my gun is on them with my finger on the trigger. If I'm clearing an area with no identifiable suspects, my finger is on the trigger guard.

I'm no weapons expert, but that's the way I was trained, and I trust in my weapons staff. They all have extensive training in firearms training, and real life experience.

I actually have a video in my mailbox right now that I would like to share with Calguns, but it is LE only. A suspect looks to be complying and cop # 1 looks to be relaxing a bit. Cop # 2 (different position) sees the suspect is secretly going for a gun in his waistband and dumps him.

Jlh, I hope your mouth just got a little ahead of your brain when you said you'd reach for the LEOs gun if pointed at you. I'm gonna assume you are just a passionate person. I will tell you in no uncertain terms, if you reach for most LEOs guns, you will lose your life. Think about it logically, you have absolutely no business reaching for an officer's gun. They are gonna perceive it as a threat to their life. And like Grumpy said, rule number one "I'm going home tonight."

The bottom line is, I dont care if you like my tactics or not, you're not there with me. You have the luxury of Monday Morning Quarterbacking recorded LE incidents from the comfort and safety of your computer. We don't.

I don't expect you to agree or understand this, just realize it.