Standard Operating Procedure for Leo's Trigger Fingers?

[SkatinJJ]

I can't stress enough continuing unloaded weapon work when you can't get the range.

Work in front of a desk: "You talkin' to me?..."

[Jonathan Doe]

When I am covering my partner detaining the suspect, my finger is on the trigger. Until the suspect is handcuffed, he is not considered secure. There are cases when the suspect turned on the officers and took him down. "On target on trigger." However, I am VERY conscious about my finger on the trigger. When I was at the LVPD shooting range for a instructor school while back, the officer who had the discharge in the video was going through a remidial training.

And the training in the police department is a sad thing. When there is a budget problem, usually the first thing they cut is training.

[workinwifdakids]

Big black cop on top of skinny white guy = secured IMHO.

Wrong. He could've danced his way loose.

[jlh95811]

I still don't get it. Most here say off the trigger. One guy says on. Maybe one is confused. Why the hell would your finger be on the trigger unless you are about to shoot the guy? Makes no sense. If he struggles do you shoot him?

UNLESS A WEAPON IS PRESENT A COP SHOULD NOT EVEN PULL OUT HIS GUN!

That is just my opinion. I understand it for felony stops and the like though. But too often I am seeing cops pull a gun just to bully the suspect.

I swear to god if you pull a gun on me without me pulling one on you first you had better not be within reach. At this point you are a threat to my life. Badge or no badge. I have seen cops shoot people for no good reason. I don't want to be the next video on the web like the guy in Bakersfield or the guy just recently on BART.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

I still don't get it. Most here say off the trigger. One guy says on. Maybe one is confused. Why the hell would your finger be on the trigger unless you are about to shoot the guy? Makes no sense. If he struggles do you shoot him?

UNLESS A WEAPON IS PRESENT A COP SHOULD NOT EVEN PULL OUT HIS GUN!

That is just my opinion. I understand it for felony stops and the like though. But too often I am seeing cops pull a gun just to bully the suspect.

I swear to god if you pull a gun on me without me pulling one on you first you had better not be within reach. At this point you are a threat to my life. Badge or no badge. I have seen cops shoot people for no good reason. I don't want to be the next video on the web like the guy in Bakersfield or the guy just recently on BART.

1. My vote is off the trigger. That's the way I trained people, too. If there is a struggle, and the suspect gains control or appears to be about to gain control of the arresting officer's weapon, I would fire as long as I could do so without endangering my partner or any other persons. I don't believe I'll be thinking too much about the suspect's safety. Does that make sense?

2. "UNLESS A WEAPON IS PRESENT A COP SHOULD NOT EVEN PULL OUT HIS GUN!"

Sorry, when an officer is there, a weapon is present - the officer's if no other. If drawing a weapon enables an officer to gain control of a suspect, isn't that better than tasing them, using chemical or impact weapons on them? What about a car as a weapon? Impact or stabbing weapons? What is the person suspected to have done? Where are their hands? What do you know about the use of force continuum and how to apply it?

3. "I swear to god if you pull a gun on me without me pulling one on you first you had better not be within reach. At this point you are a threat to my life. Badge or no badge."

The officer who has his weapon drawn and is in reach of a suspect is in an untenable tactical position, in most situations. Want to consider an officer a threat to your life? Fine. Whatever works for you, it doesn't make a bit of difference to me. If you comply with instructions as a law-abiding citizen is expected to do, you have nothing to fear. If you attack, you WILL lose and you WILL suffer the consequences. I WILL go home to my family at the end of my shift. I don't care whether you approve of my methods or not.

4. "I have seen cops shoot people for no good reason."

Quote a specific incident that you personally observed or I call BS. Be specific.

5. "I don't want to be the next video on the web like the guy in Bakersfield or the guy just recently on BART."

Comply when required and that will be most unlikely.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

You know, cops have a job to do, and they deal with the worst of society. Having to deal with a testosterone junky who is getting his panties in a bunch because he doesn't think the cop should have his gun drawn is just one more reason for cops to dislike members of the public. If you want to get pissy about where he has his gun, and whether or not his finger is on the trigger, here is a clue: In the middle of a confrontation is NOT the place to do it. Get off your high horse and do what he says. You can go after him later through the legal system if you have a case. Otherwise you are just one more statistic, bleeding out on the way to the hospital. And guess what? You lose. You are dead, and he gets to say that you attacked him, so your family has no grounds for a lawsuit. Seriously, is it worth it to be right? If a cop pulls a gun on me, I am sure as hell doing exactly what he says. If he didn't have a reason to do it, guess what? My house gets paid off, and I get a bunch of new toys. And best of all, I am alive to enjoy them. You really should think about switching to decaff, you might live longer.

-Mb (who is unamused at chestpounding in forums)

I still don't get it. Most here say off the trigger. One guy says on. Maybe one is confused. Why the hell would your finger be on the trigger unless you are about to shoot the guy? Makes no sense. If he struggles do you shoot him?

UNLESS A WEAPON IS PRESENT A COP SHOULD NOT EVEN PULL OUT HIS GUN!

That is just my opinion. I understand it for felony stops and the like though. But too often I am seeing cops pull a gun just to bully the suspect.

I swear to god if you pull a gun on me without me pulling one on you first you had better not be within reach. At this point you are a threat to my life. Badge or no badge. I have seen cops shoot people for no good reason. I don't want to be the next video on the web like the guy in Bakersfield or the guy just recently on BART.

[M. Sage]

Well, at least I know how so many NDs happen to police. Sounds like putting a finger on the trigger is trained to be automatic...

[laguns]

[jlh95811]

She was fired. But the cop who shot a guy in bakersfield for complying with his orders to stand up did not.

[jlh95811]

Quote a specific incident that you personally observed or I call BS. Be specific.

I saw it personally on the internets.

But seriously. Have you never watched any of these bad cop no donut videos all over the web?

It's very rare to witness such an incident first hand. But that does not mean they don't happen.

Maybe I'm pushing the envelope a bit though on the other part. I may or may not attack an officer for pulling a gun on me. I'm actually a fairly rational individual. That is just what I wish I would do. I wouldn't try to kill him even if I did attack though. I would simply wish to cuff them and then call the cops on THEM. lol

But that is just because we all know what guns can do and that accidents happen. It should not be pointed near me if I do not pose a threat to thier life. All may not feel the same. But I feel I am entitled to not have my life threatened without VERY good cause.

[Jonathan Doe]

Let me clarify a little bit on officer involved shooting.

When an officer is involved in a shooting with a hit, dead or wounded suspect, the whole world is rolling. For the sheriff's dept, homicide investigates the incident so does Internal Affairs and investigators from the DA's office. They all do independent investigation. It may take a while. If they determine that the shooting is justified, it ends there. If they have a problem with the shooting, discipline is on the way.

If there is no hit, only the IAB investigates the incident. I don't know how other agencies investigate their officer involved shootings.

Anyhow, all the officers' guns come to the crime lab and get examined to make sure the guns are all functional and within the factory spec. If not, I report it to the handling investigator.

I know details of many officers involved shootings, because I was in many scenes as a CSI.

Most shooting incidents are justified, but I have seen some are not. There may be a lot more details than what you see in the media. Media only reports the information the department releases. You cannot pre judge the shooting incident until finding out the detail of the whole incident.

Obviously, the officer in the video was clearly in negligence. I don't know what kind of discipline she received, but like I said, she was at the range for remedial training when I was there.

[Seesm]

THAT was terrible... I NEVER put my finger on the trigger till I am ready to kill something...

Just terrible... Keep your finger on the front of the trigger guard until your set to shoot or if the threat is high, then of course have the finger on the trigger.

But even though completely unsecured the threat did not appear large...

That's IMHO... Ok Tear Seesm up now!!

[tyrist]

Well, at least I know how so many NDs happen to police. Sounds like putting a finger on the trigger is trained to be automatic...

It is not in my agency or any that I am aware of.

[M. Sage]

It is not in my agency or any that I am aware of.

That's what all the LE who've posted here suggest. If the gun is out, they're on target with finger on trigger.

[tyrist]

That's what all the LE who've posted here suggest. If the gun is out, they're on target with finger on trigger.

Only one has said that....also If I recall I think back in the day 30+ years ago when they used double action revolvers they taught finger on the trigger.

Maybe there are some serious old timers lurkig around.